AdHoc - Regarding, "There is NO rapture for the Jews.

[WilliamL]

20 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

A pre-tribulation rapture of the church to heaven isnt found in scripture, it's a fictional imagination of (John N. Darby) & (C.I. Scofield) better known as dispensationalism

I agree. I teach pre-wrath, not pre-trib. Big difference.

[The Light]

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

A pre-tribulation rapture of the church to heaven isnt found in scripture, it's a fictional imagination of (John N. Darby) & (C.I. Scofield) better known as dispensationalism

When is the rapture of the Church?

BTW, when I hear the John Nelson Darby, yada, yada, yada, nonsense, I know, I am dealing with someone that is regurgitating what they have heard and have not taken the time to do their own RE SEARCH.

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

When is the rapture of the Church?

BTW, when I hear the John Nelson Darby, yada, yada, yada, nonsense, I know, I am dealing with someone that is regurgitating what they have heard and have not taken the time to do their own RE SEARCH.

Thanks for the reply, possibly you can provide scripture in support of a pre-trib rapture, waiting?

Jesus Is The Lord

P.S. the "Catching Up/Rapture" takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ, on (The Last Day) resurrection of all

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Edited December 17, 2021 by truth7t7

[The Light]

15 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the reply, possibly you can provide scripture in support of a pre-trib rapture, waiting?

Jesus Is The Lord

P.S. the "Catching Up/Rapture" takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ, on (The Last Day) resurrection of all

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Hey Truth,

Can you tell me where in Revelation this second coming of Christ is.?

[The Light]

On 12/16/2021 at 2:42 PM, WilliamL said:

No, it is a different period altogether. You just fail to understand it.

In short, God's End Time judgments come in four stages (just as did His judgments of the Exodus era):

1) The 7 Spirits of Revelation 4 - 5. Rev. 4:5; 5:6 This time covers Godʼs Judgment of the elohim/gods/angelic Powers of heaven. It is best described in Psalm 82, Isaiah 24:21, Enoch 58, Hebrews 12:26, and Revelation 12:7ff.

No, Rev 4-5 Shows the Church in heaven before the seals are opened.

On 12/16/2021 at 2:42 PM, WilliamL said:

2) The 7 Seals of Revelation 6 - 8:1. This is the time of the Judgment of the Church.

No, the seals occur during the 70th week of Daniel, which is about the people of Daniel. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the mostly Gentile Church as they are already in heaven and the fullness of Gentiles comes in at the rapture.

On 12/16/2021 at 2:42 PM, WilliamL said:

3) The 7 Trumpets of Revelation 8:2 - 11:19. This is the time of the Judgment of Israel.

No, the seven trumpets are God's wrath on the unrighteous. Only those in the nation of Israel that will flee to a place of protection that was prepared for her will be on earth during God's wrath, except of course, the unrighteous.

On 12/16/2021 at 2:42 PM, WilliamL said:

4) The 7 Bowls of Revelation 15 - 16 and 19:11-21. This is the time of the Judgment of the nations. Each period has wider effects, but these are their four primary areas of focus.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1980-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-1/

 

The seven bowls are just a different view of things that occur during Gods wrath. This is easy enough to PROVE. We already know that the great tribulation occurs at the 5th seal. We also see the great tribulation in Rev 14. We see the coming of Jesus in Rev 6 and that is the same coming of Jesus of Rev 14. The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. The mystery of God IS FINISHED.

Rev 10

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

THE WRATH OF GOD IS OVER. Jesus has returned and set up His kingdom on earth.

Rev 13 and 14 occurs in the seals.

Revelation is written just like Genesis 7. There is only flood but you get 3 views of it with different information. Same thing happens in Revelation. There is only one great tribulation and one wrath of God, but you get two views with different information.

[WilliamL]

On 12/17/2021 at 3:31 PM, The Light said:

No, Rev 4-5 Shows the Church in heaven before the seals are opened.

Many of the Church are in heaven now. But Rev. 4-5 says nothing about the ones there at that time "having come out of the great tribulation." Those words do not appear until 7:14.

And they could not have come out of the great tribulation, because until the "slain Lamb" of 5:6 has come before the heavenly throne this second time, and only thereafter "appear out [of the heavenly sanctuary] a second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb. 9:28), can the Rapture occur.

This is the prophetic meaning of the two entries of the High Priest into the Sanctuary for forgiveness for sins on the Day of Atonement, as foreshadowed in Lev. 16. Which Paul explains in Hebrews 9, though most people do not understand what he was prophesying.

Explained more fully here in the first section:

34. The Tabernacle and Court, Part 4: The Most Holy Place

Reveals the principles represented by the Most Holy Place of the Tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1505-the-tabernacle-and-court-part-4-the-most-holy-place/

Edited December 21, 2021 by WilliamL
changed 5:5 to 5:6

[truth7t7]

On 12/17/2021 at 2:31 PM, The Light said:

THE WRATH OF GOD IS OVER. Jesus has returned and set up His kingdom on earth.

Rev 13 and 14 occurs in the seals.

Revelation is written just like Genesis 7. There is only flood but you get 3 views of it with different information. Same thing happens in Revelation. There is only one great tribulation and one wrath of God, but you get two views with different information.

I strongly disagree, no place in scripture does it claim/teach Jesus Christ returns and sets a kingdom up on "This Earth"

[The Light]

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

I strongly disagree, no place in scripture does it claim/teach Jesus Christ returns and sets a kingdom up on "This Earth"

You're kidding right?

[The Light]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Many of the Church are in heaven now. But Rev. 4-5 says nothing about the ones there at that time "having come out of the great tribulation." Those words do not appear until 7:14.

EXACTLY. You're finally getting somewhere. The Church DOES NOT come out of Great Tribulation as they are in heaven BEFORE the 70th week of Daniel begins, which is before the seals are opened.

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

And they could not have come out of the great tribulation, because until the "slain Lamb" of 5:5 has come before the heavenly throne this second time, and only thereafter "appear out [of the heavenly sanctuary] a second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb. 9:28), can the Rapture occur.

The pretribulation rapture will occur when Jesus appears to the Church the second time. This appearing will occur at the rapture of the Church which happens before the seals are opened.

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

 

[WilliamL]

1 minute ago, The Light said:

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

And they could not have come out of the great tribulation, because until the "slain Lamb" of 5:5 has come before the heavenly throne this second time, and only thereafter "appear out [of the heavenly sanctuary] a second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb. 9:28), can the Rapture occur.

The pretribulation rapture will occur when Jesus appears to the Church the second time. This appearing will occur at the rapture of the Church which happens before the seals are opened.

So you are saying in effect that the Rapture occurs after Rev. 5:6 but before 6:1.

Good luck showing that! Must be that "secret rapture" that pre-tribbers talk about. Secret to Revelation 5, for sure.