1st and 2nd Resurrection differences

[DeighAnn]

21 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

I will answer your last objection first. These teachings of death do not come from me. Scripture says the LAST enemy to be defeated is death. Have you defeated yourself yet? Have you defeated the beast and his armies. have you defeated temptation. I haven't. I still battle. And death is the last to be defeated - 1,000 years after Christ returns.

My bad, 
 

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

2 Timothy 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.


 

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 2:11 For both He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

Hebrews 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same;


that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil

Hebrews 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.



I hope this clears it up   I know Satan/Death can't be done away with until after being let loose at the end of the Lords Day.     d
 

[AdHoc]

5 minutes ago, Josheb said:

What is a "contect"? 

I will accept your report that you tried to answer my question but there is no example of a disembodied spirit in this post. If you had an actual example of a disembodied spirit then I would like to read it. Please try again. 

"Contect" is a word that a tired old man at midnight, who types with two fingers, renders instead of CONTENT. In my first posting I think I wrote SUBSTANCE.

I'm in a two way discussion with sister d - as you can see. But I will try again.

By the way, before I answer I would like to point out that "disembodied spirit" was your idea. I don't want to fight over semantics, but James 2:26 shows rather a "dis-spirited body". Anyway ... Luke 23 

46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. ..... 52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

The body of Jesus was minus His spirit. He had commended it into the Father's hands. According to Acts 2:27-34, our Lord's SOUL went to Hades. At no time did any part cease to exist. But I also readily admit that the function of a dead man is seriously impaired - in all parts.

[DeighAnn]

37 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Now to your first objection - John 14. The Father's House is NEVER HEAVEN. There is not a single scripture to say that God's House is heaven.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven.

[DeighAnn]

21 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Adamic nature can be overcome UNTIL the redemption of the body. Verse 23 says "WAITING" for the redemption of the body". It comes at a later date.

One of us is correct. 

You say, No resurrection of the dead until Christ returns

I say, we pass through death don't stay in the the grave to await His return.  

 

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God

WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


 

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

d

[AdHoc]

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Works are for reward.  Salvation if of GRACE.  That guy came to faith and DECLARED HIS NAME AND BY THE GRACE OF GOD RECEIVED.    

Doesn't matter if you come in the morning and work all the long day or come a minute before the work is done ALL RECEIVE THE SAME GIFT.  It is NOT BASED on what we do but OUR HEART AND WHAT GOD GIVES

You, and others, can type fast and are quick to cut and paste from your Bible software. You are producing three postings to my one. Just now I'll have a headache. LOL.

A good tactic is to answer a question with a question. You have had me under the kosh, but now it is my turn. I think its only fair if you address what I addressed in answer to your posting.

Answer me, with commentary on the scriptures you post, why you think John 14 is about heaven. I gave good reason why it is not. Time for you to step up to the mark.

Answer me, with commentary on scripture, why we all die and our bodies can be seen rotting, when death is abolished. I expect to see how David was still in Hades 50 days after Christ's resurrection if death was abolished.

Answer me, with commentary, why the SOULS of the martyrs are still UNDER the altar in Revelation 6? You don't have to spend much time on the altar as long as you agree that it is the altar of sacrifice and not the altar of incense.

It's midnight here and I'm hitting the nest to charge my batteries for tomorrow.

I bid you good night

[DeighAnn]

10 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Aside from that bit about a millennium, how is that different than what I posted? 

Hopefully not at all.  

 

11 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I do not believe there are any who have not heard or understood the truth of God's existence and His power such that none are without excuse.

We will have to await to find out.  It will be interesting...

 

13 minutes ago, Josheb said:

 It looks like the interest is in this being a conversation on eschatology and not Theology specifically or in general so I'm going to move on from this op. You know my views on the millennium, the beast, etc. and you know these positions are very popular but held only by those subscribing to a Dispensational two-kingdoms modern futurism that was invented in the 19th century. 

As it pertains to the resurrection, no one should render what Revelation says about those accepting the mark to be in conflict with what Jesus said about there being only one unforgiveable sin, or the fact that it is God who works in us both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

I appreciate your time.  

I thought the unforgiveable sin was refusing the Holy Spirit to speak.  Never heard it had to do with taking the mark of the beast.  Hum...I shall go check that out.  Thank you Josheb, you always make me think...d

[DeighAnn]

12 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

You, and others, can type fast and are quick to cut and paste from your Bible software. You are producing three postings to my one. Just now I'll have a headache. LOL.

A good tactic is to answer a question with a question. You have had me under the kosh, but now it is my turn. I think its only fair if you address what I addressed in answer to your posting.

Answer me, with commentary on the scriptures you post, why you think John 14 is about heaven. I gave good reason why it is not. Time for you to step up to the mark.

Answer me, with commentary on scripture, why we all die and our bodies can be seen rotting, when death is abolished. I expect to see how David was still in Hades 50 days after Christ's resurrection if death was abolished.

Answer me, with commentary, why the SOULS of the martyrs are still UNDER the altar in Revelation 6? You don't have to spend much time on the altar as long as you agree that it is the altar of sacrifice and not the altar of incense.

It's midnight here and I'm hitting the nest to charge my batteries for tomorrow.

I bid you good night

OH THANK GOD, I will get to those after a break.  SLEEP well. WHAT a day.  I am tired.  till then....d

[Your closest friendnt]

@AdHoc and anyone else who may be consern to get involved. 

Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 ĶJV 

 :because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

*The author of this passage is the Son of David and he is telling what is happening to a man, as in this narrative  about a man who is being mourned and when the mourners did what their culture was they went their way.

IN CAREFUL EXAMINATION WE CAN TELL A FEW THINGS ABOUT THE BELIEFS OF THE NARRATOR. 

One of them is that he is describing according to his beliefs that the man has a body and a Spirit.

The way he is describing it is that he believes that the body is the house of the man's Spirit. 

When a man is experiencing the physical the spirit of man is set free and it Goes back to God who gave it.

He is somehow looking in Genesis of how God made man when he formed him from the earth and he breath Life in him.

This description is not what happened in the Garden.

The scripture says that God breath into man and Man became "a living soul".

He says that God gave man of his spirit. And this is it.

Man is not an eternal individual according to him but is from the earth and has borrow a part from God's Spirit. And at the time of his death the reversal it takes place.

The body goes to earth and the Spirit which was in the body it was on a borrow time from God and expires at the time man dies and at that time returns to his owner and it is part of him as it was before he gave it to man.

We will come back to that because we have a lot to say about him and his obvious misrepresented message. 

There is nothing about Life after death or of any kind of Judgment after death. 

The narrator is seems to communicate that all is finished at the time of death.

The Author who is Solomon is communicate his messages through a medium he is calling him a preacher.

A man who exist on his thinking only and he  communicates the thoughts of this fictitious man, as in a philosophical state of self. 

A lot of things are not mentioned like Sheol was not mentioned the God of the dead was not mentioned the beliefs of his Father David were not mention, Abraham and Issac and Jacob and their believes are not mentioned.

Samuel and his believes and the beliefs in the book of Law is not mentioned. 

 This man the fictional one whom Solomon called Preacher we do not know anything about him as a human who he was or where he comes from. 

Solomon did not grow up with this kind of beliefs, he grew up in the teachings of the Law and his Father David who was a man after God's heart (but not in the wrong he did) but in the way he show Mercy even to his enemies, and as a prophet he wrote the prophetic book of Psalms. (His Psalms are in the book of Psalms. 

David was under the influence of the Spirit of God and God showed him visions of what to come which the people could not understand till they took place. 

But it is clear that at some time in his life Solomon had been influenced by another strange Spirit some kind of a distorted Spirit because of his way of life with so many Occult wives it seemed that he allowed himself to be influenced by that Spirit which he called preacher.

Because it did not Judge his Occult believing wives which were Judged  and also himself was judged by the Law. 

It seems that Solomon had lost his direction and he felt far away from God the way King Saul felt when he followed in his way. 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

My point exactly. 

 

Listen carefully to what folks teach about Christians taking on the mark. Remember: Revelation was written to, for, and about the ekklesia, not Israel or the pagan world. 

Is your point exactly that you believe the same or you believe different and you believe I am wrong?  

If I am not mistaken you as an amill believe all prophecy is past.  Doesn't that very fact alone make everything I believe wrong in your eyes?

It wasn't written for the TRIBE of Judah the rejecting of Christ Jews/Israelites, with that I will agree.  BUT

The ekklesia CAME FROM THE PAGAN peoples along with the scattered/lost sheep house of Israel and those of Judah who came to believe in the Messiah, all made one.  Circumcision of the heart, no longer the flesh so bloodline with those adopted into the promises. Isn't it ALL OF GODS WRITTEN words that bring them all TO Christianity?  Revelation just another book written to them to bring them into the fold? THough I AGREE it is not written FOR those who have not come into the fold.

Remember, I do not separate Christians that are from the nations from Christians from House of Israel from Christians from House of Judah.  House of Israel were scattered to the world long before Christ walked the earth and had already forgotten who they were weren't 'under the laws' like those who went back to Jerusalem were (having gone into captivity and not returned to their lands)   CHRISTIANS of today do not know whether they are of the bloodline or not.  So how does that bear on what happens to Israel (and is that Israel the land of, Israel the people of the 12 tribes or Israel with all grafted in making up the body called Christians, or Israel the new place God provided where they would be safe? 

Maybe you can tell me what you believe is the difference between the three and how the 'end times' effect them differently because what I read it all were made one nothing dividing them Christians and the Judah/Jews not going to be Christians until Christ returns. 

Since everyone goes through the trib what difference does it make anyhow?  Jews are set cause of the promises, Christians are set cause of the promises or the adoption to the promises.  In the end, those who believe in God will be coming to Christ, and Christ is coming to those who believe in Him and so all end up with the gift.   


 I do see the difference between the Judah/Jews still waiting for the Messiah and Christians, but as I said, not the rest of Israel.  Until someone can show me the scriptures that make that go away, how can I believe anything different?  I need to see where it is written or the collection of passages it is 'written of' that lead me to no other conclusion.  THAT would be GREAT.   

Thank you again and sorry the conversation is not going in the direction you were hoping for.  Good night   d  



 

[AdHoc]

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

No, it is not. I read the body goes down and the spirit goes up. Unless and until there is an explanation reconciling those two conditions that is a disembodied spirit. It was NOT my idea. 

OK. Semantics. Just for the record (an unimportant one) I regard a demon as a disembodied spirit. He is spirit as main substance and looks for a body. Since man is a "soul" maybe "disembodied soul" would be the most accurate. But if that is our worst difference, I rejoice.

I'm not going to the barricades for it.