Who is the Little Horn of Daniel 8? Can this be linked with the Little Horn in Daniel 7?

[JoeCanada]

9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Joe, if you do not mind, would you respond to my questions recently posed to Light above ASSUMING Revelation has yet to be written?

Just reading Daniel. Thank you, Charlie 

Hi Charlie,

Yes, I would love to go thru Daniel with you. However, this is adamjedgar's post and I wouldn't want to take over...if you know what I mean. Besides, it looks like you have your hands full. Maybe a new post????

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

I don't think that the figure seen in Daniel 9:27 is the Antichrist. The Antichrist is the eighth king who is of the seven. The prince that shall come is the 7th king. He is the rider on the white horse of the first seal. This prince that shall come is also a king of the North that is seen in Daniel 11.

 

I respectfully disagree, this figure is the (Little Horn) The Beast

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

[The Light]

37 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

 

I respectfully disagree, this figure is the (Little Horn) The Beast

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Well, I saw in another post that you think that the king of the North in Daniel 11 is the Antichrist. It's easy to prove that's incorrect.

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Well, I saw in another post that you think that the king of the North in Daniel 11 is the Antichrist. It's easy to prove that's incorrect.

I believe the bad guy seen in Daniel chapters 7,8,9,11, and in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, and Revelation chapter 13 are all the same bad guy in parallel teachings

Feel free to post your claims otherwise, ill be glad to respond in dialogue

Edited December 23, 2021 by truth7t7

[adamjedgar]

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

And I will state again, the horn and the beast seen in Daniel 7:11 are the same entity, a human man, and the beast will be a Jew/Hebrew in decent as Daniel 11:37 clearly shows, his fathers worshipped the true Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

What?

How do you get Jew or Hebrew even in prophetic terms when Daniel 11 is clearly speaking of hellenistic rule at the hands of the Greek empire (in this case very specifically the Seleucid kingdom whose ruler at the time in verse 37 has been shown by history to be Antiochus E)? I think this is a highly improbable conclusion given the context of the passage of scripture you have quoted!

 

I do not think Daniel 11 can be used for that claim...i dont think this passage of scripture supports it directly. You would need a better reference i think.

So, having said that, I am of an open mind, what is your reference to show that Daniel 11:37 is an Israelite/Jew? At present i cant recall a passage of scripture where paganism is linked prophetically with a Jew...are there any references for such a view that would correlate with this text?

 

BTW, are we now all in agreement that the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 are of the same heritage...or at least have the same goals? We have 24+ pages of replies here i cant recall if there was an agreement reached on the original question? (or are we still debating that point?)

Edited December 23, 2021 by adamjedgar

[truth7t7]

16 minutes ago, adamjedgar said:

What?

How do you get Jew or Hebrew even in prophetic terms when Daniel 11 is clearly speaking of hellenistic rule at the hands of the Greek empire (in this case very specifically the Seleucid kingdom whose ruler at the time in verse 37 has been shown by history to be Antiochus E)? I think this is a highly improbable conclusion given the context of the passage of scripture you have quoted!

 

I do not think Daniel 11 can be used for that claim...i dont think this passage of scripture supports it directly. You would need a better reference i think.

So, having said that, I am of an open mind, what is your reference to show that Daniel 11:37 is an Israelite/Jew? At present i cant recall a passage of scripture where paganism is linked prophetically with a Jew...are there any references for such a view that would correlate with this text?

 

BTW, are we now all in agreement that the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 are of the same heritage...or at least have the same goals? We have 24+ pages of replies here i cant recall if there was an agreement reached on the original question? (or are we still debating that point?)

Thanks for the response Adam, Jesus is the Lord

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

[Charlie744]

57 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response Adam, Jesus is the Lord

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

Truth7t7, I am quite confused and have difficulty with most of your comments (as I am quite sure you feel the same on your end with my interpretations). 

Anyway, the 'little horn' WILL INDEED THINK to change times and laws and speak against the most High (God)- that would be the papacy. Their teachings, traditions and rituals, etc., would seriously forsake the Laws and commands of God.... The God of his fathers here represents the One true God - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The pope / papacy IS SUPPOSED TO HONOR AND OBEY AND WORSHIP  the God who gave us / the Jews the Scriptures. The RCC is NOT the 'church' and Jesus did NOT come to establish a new 'church'. He came to fulfill the law and the prophecies IN THE TANAKH. We must honor and obey the God or OUR fathers - none other than God!

Now, before I go I would like to mention what I believe I may understand from your previous responses:

1) the beast in Daniel 7 is the AC,

2) the little horn in 7 & 8 is the AC,

3) the 'he' in 9:27 is the AC,

4) the king of the north in chapter 11 is the AC,

5) Jerusalem is the whore who sits  on the beast in Revelation,

There is more but that is enough....

Questions:

a) who or what is the 10 horns,

b) if the 10 horns came out of the beast are they also the AC,

c) the little horn came out of the beast and is also the AC so why not the 1o horns,

d) when does the beast, little horn and 1o horns arrive on scene,

e) If they ALL take place still in the future, then what  is the 4th kingdom, and when did it start.

f) if the  4th kingdom is still in the future I imagine the symbolic metal of iron should really be something like 'silicone wafers', fiber optic, or titanium.. something that reflects today's / tomorrow's elements,

g) by the way, where is the MESSIAH in your Daniel interpretations. I don't believe you have mentioned Him yet and revealed what verses He is mentioned.

Listen, I could go on for days with this but I would rather not. Not every actor in Daniel WITHIN THE 4th kingdom can be the AC. In fact, I can assure you there is NO AC mentioned or referred to in Daniel. The 'little horn' is the 'bad guy' as you call him and he is indeed the head of the RCC who does NOT honor the God of his fathers.

I know, I know, you will have to disagree.... that is a given. Now, if you decide you might want to answer any of the above I am sure everyone in this forum / topic will love to see how this comes together. (And I would recommend once again, that you stay within the confines of Daniel only since a verse in Revelation will not provide support for a verse in Daniel.... Daniel must be interpreted first and it will fit like a glove in Revelation.

Take the actors and events just within Daniel and identify them and their time frame - no Revelation... Charlie

 

[truth7t7]

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Questions:

a) who or what is the 10 horns,

b) if the 10 horns came out of the beast are they also the AC,

c) the little horn came out of the beast and is also the AC so why not the 1o horns,

d) when does the beast, little horn and 1o horns arrive on scene,

e) If they ALL take place still in the future, then what  is the 4th kingdom, and when did it start.

f) if the  4th kingdom is still in the future I imagine the symbolic metal of iron should really be something like 'silicone wafers', fiber optic, or titanium.. something that reflects today's / tomorrow's elements,

g) by the way, where is the MESSIAH in your Daniel interpretations. I don't believe you have mentioned Him yet and revealed what verses He is mentioned.

Listen, I could go on for days with this but I would rather not. Not every actor in Daniel WITHIN THE 4th kingdom can be the AC. In fact, I can assure you there is NO AC mentioned or referred to in Daniel. The 'little horn' is the 'bad guy' as you call him and he is indeed the head of the RCC who does NOT honor the God of his fathers.

I know, I know, you will have to disagree.... that is a given. Now, if you decide you might want to answer any of the above I am sure everyone in this forum / topic will love to see how this comes together. (And I would recommend once again, that you stay within the confines of Daniel only since a verse in Revelation will not provide support for a verse in Daniel.... Daniel must be interpreted first and it will fit like a glove in Revelation.

Take the actors and events just within Daniel and identify them and their time frame - no Revelation... Charlie

 

Thanks for the response Charlie, we will look at the ten horns 

You claim the 10 horns come out of the beast, scripture teaches the ten kings had no Kingdom, so this removes that they are leaders of other nations, and they will receive power quickly in one hour with the beast 

It's my "Opinion" that these ten kings will be the recognized leaders of the ten lost tribes of Israel, who will be recognized quickly as kings of these tribes

(The Beast/Antichrist) together with the ten kings will come against Jerusalem, most likely conservative orthodox leaders, as Jerusalem is currently in liberal evil, homosexual parades, etc

The main drive will be that the Beast will make a show to be Messiah God, and the 10 kings will support this as true

Jerusalem will be the great city reigning over the earth's kings, and the Beast/Antichrist will be their leader in Jerusalem

Revelation 17:12-18AKJV

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Edited December 23, 2021 by truth7t7

[Charlie744]

3 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response Charlie, we will look at the ten horns 

You claim the 10 horns come out of the beast, scripture teaches the ten kings had no Kingdom, so this removes that they are leaders of other nations, and they will receive power quickly in one hour with the beast 

It's my "Opinion" that these ten kings will be the recognized leaders of the ten lost tribes of Israel, who will be recognized quickly as kings of these tribes

(The Beast/Antichrist) together with the ten kings will come against Jerusalem, most likely conservative orthodox leaders, as Jerusalem is currently in liberal evil, homosexual parades, etc

The main drive will be that the Beast will make a show to be Messiah God, and the 10 kings will support this as true

Jerusalem will be the great city reigning over the earth's kings, and the Beast/Antichrist will be their leader

Revelation 17:12-18AKJV

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

You keep saying the Scripture teaches us.... NO, these are simply your interpretations ..... nothing in the Scriptures tells us those things you mentioned.

Where and who is the 4th kingdom?

Where is the Messiah mentioned or discussed in Daniel?

Stay within Daniel... which you refuse to do at any level. 

[truth7t7]

37 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Truth7t7, I am quite confused and have difficulty with most of your comments (as I am quite sure you feel the same on your end with my interpretations). 

Anyway, the 'little horn' WILL INDEED THINK to change times and laws and speak against the most High (God)- that would be the papacy. Their teachings, traditions and rituals, etc., would seriously forsake the Laws and commands of God.... The God of his fathers here represents the One true God - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The pope / papacy IS SUPPOSED TO HONOR AND OBEY AND WORSHIP  the God who gave us / the Jews the Scriptures. The RCC is NOT the 'church' and Jesus did NOT come to establish a new 'church'. He came to fulfill the law and the prophecies IN THE TANAKH. We must honor and obey the God or OUR fathers - none other than God!

Now, before I go I would like to mention what I believe I may understand from your previous responses:

1) the beast in Daniel 7 is the AC,

2) the little horn in 7 & 8 is the AC,

3) the 'he' in 9:27 is the AC,

4) the king of the north in chapter 11 is the AC,

5) Jerusalem is the whore who sits  on the beast in Revelation,

There is more but that is enough....

Questions:

a) who or what is the 10 horns,

b) if the 10 horns came out of the beast are they also the AC,

c) the little horn came out of the beast and is also the AC so why not the 1o horns,

d) when does the beast, little horn and 1o horns arrive on scene,

e) If they ALL take place still in the future, then what  is the 4th kingdom, and when did it start.

f) if the  4th kingdom is still in the future I imagine the symbolic metal of iron should really be something like 'silicone wafers', fiber optic, or titanium.. something that reflects today's / tomorrow's elements,

g) by the way, where is the MESSIAH in your Daniel interpretations. I don't believe you have mentioned Him yet and revealed what verses He is mentioned.

Listen, I could go on for days with this but I would rather not. Not every actor in Daniel WITHIN THE 4th kingdom can be the AC. In fact, I can assure you there is NO AC mentioned or referred to in Daniel. The 'little horn' is the 'bad guy' as you call him and he is indeed the head of the RCC who does NOT honor the God of his fathers.

I know, I know, you will have to disagree.... that is a given. Now, if you decide you might want to answer any of the above I am sure everyone in this forum / topic will love to see how this comes together. (And I would recommend once again, that you stay within the confines of Daniel only since a verse in Revelation will not provide support for a verse in Daniel.... Daniel must be interpreted first and it will fit like a glove in Revelation.

Take the actors and events just within Daniel and identify them and their time frame - no Revelation... Charlie

 

Charlie I have stated several several times, Daniel 7:11 describes the horn and the beast, they are the same bad guy

I have explained that my opinion is the bad guy seen in Daniel Chapters 7,8,9,11 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3, and Revelation 13 are all the same bad guy

Scripture teaches this bad guy will be revealed in Jerusalem proclaiming  to be Messiah returned, the 10 kings will receive power after his revealing, he will have 3.5 years of power

Charlie you continue to push the papacy as the beast, the Jews in Jerusalem aren't going to receive a catholic as Messiah, no more than a Muslim, the future Little horn/The Beast is going to be a Jew/Hebrew as explained