Revelation 12:6 The Woman In The Wilderness Explained?

[tatwo]

Greetings iamlamad...comments below

i> I don't think we need types or shadows here: they were in the Old Testament as shadows of what would come in the New.  

Thanks for your opinion...the book of “The Revelation of Jesus Christ” really does require a thorough spiritual understanding of scriptural types, shadows, and symbols. These are used all throughout the scriptures to convey a consistent message from Genesis – Revelation. That was done by God intentionally so that we could see Him carrying out His plan exactly as He stated He would in the beginning, and that He is faithful all the way through to the end of the age. 

Without the scriptural support and understanding of the types/shadows/symbols any attempt to discern the elements contained in this book are a guess at best. Since you are not aware of this…that clarifies something about your “style.” 

i> I choose to believe what God spoke to me, that He "chose" to show John what the Dragon (Satan) did when Jesus was a young boy. We know the dragon used King Herod to try and murder Jesus. Since John was the youngest disciple, these things happened before John was born. It was indeed, a "history lesson" for John, exactly as Jesus spoke to me.  

Ok, so I see what you are saying…God told you that John the apostle who likely wrote a gospel called John, 3 epistles and the book of Revelation…(I know there is debate about what John wrote or did not write…I am not contentious about that…see it as you wish…he was an apostle) needed a history lesson…and his history lesson just happened to be the book of Revelation “G602 apokalupsis” which means a disclosure, unveiling, uncovering, revealing, revelation…previously unknown because it was "veiled, covered?” 

Speechless here iamlamad… 

i> (I don't and won't apologize for hearing the voice of God.) 

I don’t remember asking you to apologize iamlamad…but you are correct no apology necessary. 

i> Where on a timeline of Revelation, would you put chapter 12? 

Well, there is a brother who posted on this forum going by the name “WilliamL” and he did some work on this…I think it’s a good place to start…his text is in blue. 

Rev. 12:7-11 then reveals that this Manchild, a collective body, the elect-of-the-elect overcomers, will participate in the casting down of Satan and his angels out of heaven: 

Rev. 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death. 

The “they” of verse 11 cannot refer to any non-human angels, only to men, that is, to those ascended overcomers of the Manchild(ren) cleansed and empowered by the blood of Jesus. 

These events take place “at the time of the end” (Dan. 11:40), the “time Michael shall stand up” (Dan. 12:1; Rev. 12:7), just prior to and during “a time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:21), that is, the Great Tribulation. 

I like what WilliamL did here for the most part…I am still working it.

Tatwo...:)

[The Light]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

We have been over this time and again. You imagine the 70th-week in the seals, but God and John are in church history in the seals. You are 2000 years off. Don't take my word for it, take John's: WHEN did Jesus ascend and send the Holy Spirit down? (That is when He got the book.)

I'll take Jesus and Johns word for it. 

Jesus says in Matthew 24

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

John says in Rev 6

And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Jesus and John tell us exactly the same story. And it continues with each telling us about the great tribulation and His coming.

It's the same story. The Church will escape ALL THESE THINGS which comes to pass which means that the Church will not be here when the seals are opened. 

[tatwo]

Greetings

Here is a response to a simple outline that truth7t7 posted yesterday I believe. I am attempting to work through something here and am suggesting that we become “objective”…questions…with our views allowing us to dig into what one may actually be telling us. If we come across something you do not understand it is no shame...but we must be humble.

This verses all of the “subjective”…statements…that appear to keep leading to division, it has been said “I disagree” yet we keep bantering about the thing we disagreed upon…does that sound like a healthy maturing body of Christ?

I would like to mention two brothers that have brought “light” to the discussion of the woman of Rev.12 along with truth7t7…they are AdHoc, and WilliamL. They, like truth7t7 have put together outlines we can work from to discover who/what this woman is and what roll she plays in our future if any.    

“Without” the viewpoint that everything John was shown from Revelation 4:1 onward as being “after”…that is, future from his day…we will not realize the revealing of a future prophetic fulfillment.

Rev. 4:1 itself, clearly delineates “what must take place after these things”…applying the “past” iteration or type…to this prophetically future event being spoken of in Rev 12 for example, as it’s fulfillment…obscures its future prophetic revelation.

The book of Revelation itself is a disclosure, the unveiling of that which was previously unknown…as the name “Revelation - apokalupsis” implies.

This makes sense because it was the already crucified, resurrected & glorified Lord Yahshua Himself…who was revealing these things to John. This must be understood and applied.

This is “types and shadows”…For example, God prophesied (Gen.3:15) that the seed of the “woman” would crush the head of the serpent.

The first carrier of the seed of the “woman” was Eve, another “type” would be Sarah…she carried the seed of promise in Isaac…there is Israel…she carried the seed of promise in Messiah…next we have Mary…she carried the seed of promise in Yahshua...and lastly, it would appear, this “woman” in Rev. 12 is also carrying the seed of promise, and that is yet a future and final fulfillment, simply because it occurs at the “end of the age.”

Our God has specific intention in doing things this way…and He wants us to understand this because He is showing us that He is consistent in His “interaction” with humanity throughout all the ages of creation. One of the ways He does this is the use of types and shadows.

truth7t7> I see the woman in verses 1 & 2 as being Israel who brought forth Jesus Christ being with child

Israel and Christ being in the past at the time of John’s writing…serves as a “type” pointing us to the “future woman and Man-Child” revealed in Rev. 12.

truth7t7> I see verse 3 & 4 as a historical description of satan being cast out of heaven to the earth, and he used King Herod trying to devour Jesus when he was born

In type, exactly, Herod as the dragon, Christ as the Child…however, due to the fact that we know that event had been fulfilled prior to John’s writing…we have a “type” of the future fulfillment of Rev. 12.

I am working on the rest of your original post truth7t7…it’s not complete.

Tatwo...:)

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

Yeah, you got some things that will happen, you just aren't getting WHEN they will happen.

I'll try to keep this simple, if I can. You quote Matthew 24. This event happens at the 6th seal. The sixth seal is the return of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth. Jesus will remain in the clouds, but all eyes will see His coming.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Then you quote Rev 20 but you seem to ignore the previous verses that tell you that it is after 1000 years.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

So the events of Revelation 21 with a new heaven and a new earth happen at the end of the 1000 year Day of the Lord.

And the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, happen at the 6th seal, before the Day of the Lord begins.

Matthew 24:29-31 is the second coming and resurrection

There isnt a Millennial Kingdom on this earth seen in Revelation 20 as you claim, nor in any part of scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You are all mixed up here. "That day" means the Day of the Lord - that dark day of destruction where God will destroy the world and the sinners in the world.

That day, the Day of the Lord, will be present (will have already started) when someone sees the great departing (the church raptured) and then sees the man of sin revealed.

The man of in CANNOT be revealed until the One restraining him is "taken out of the way." That will happen because it is the Holy Spirit, using the authority of the church, the restrain or hold back the revealing of the Antichrist. When the church is taken out of the way - departed - then the man of sin will be revealed - and then all should know, the Day has started and they are IN IT.

I Strongly Disagree

Scripture clearly teaches the Church will be present to see the (Man Of Sin) Antichrist revealed,  I won't be deceived

The Scripture below clearly teaches that the church will be present on earth to be eyewitnesses of the (Man of Sin) Antichrist being revealed, Paul clearly warned the Church against your teaching that they wouldn't see the Antichrist

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3KJV

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

[The Light]

3 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Matthew 24:29-31 is the second coming and resurrection

There isnt a Millennial Kingdom on this earth seen in Revelation 20 as you claim, nor in any part of scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is His coming at the 6th seal. And here are the scriptural supports that you are completely disregarding.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

You are really confused if you do not see a 1000 millennial reign on the earth. I mean how do you complete disregard this scripture?

Rev 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

These are just basic facts. Christ returns and reigns the earth for 1000 years. How can you miss stuff like this?

I can see how you might not be able to understand that there will be a pretribulation rapture, with all the false teachings and all. But who in the world is teaching the Christ doesn't reign on the earth for 1000 year? Where are you getting this from, because it's not Bible?

 

[truth7t7]

30 minutes ago, The Light said:

These are just basic facts. Christ returns and reigns the earth for 1000 years. How can you miss stuff like this?

But who in the world is teaching the Christ doesn't reign on the earth for 1000 year? Where are you getting this from, because it's not Bible?

 

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time On This Earth

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Edited January 10, 2022 by truth7t7

[The Light]

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

Yes, Yes and Yes.

Is this stuff something you have come up with yourself or is some Church teaching this nonsense.

There will be a 1000 year millennial kingdom on earth. The mortal humans will come to Jerusalem.

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Yes, Yes and Yes.

Is this stuff something you have come up with yourself or is some Church teaching this nonsense.

There will be a 1000 year millennial kingdom on earth. The mortal humans will come to Jerusalem.

No mortal humans are seen in Revelation 20:1-6, just (The Souls) & (The Dead) pretty hard to have a hold hands and skip down the yellow brick road kingdom with these dead figures 

Edited January 11, 2022 by truth7t7

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

I Strongly Disagree

Scripture clearly teaches the Church will be present to see the (Man Of Sin) Antichrist revealed,  I won't be deceived

The Scripture below clearly teaches that the church will be present on earth to be eyewitnesses of the (Man of Sin) Antichrist being revealed, Paul clearly warned the Church against your teaching that they wouldn't see the Antichrist

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3KJV

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Are you SURE you have the intent of the Author?

HOW does the man of sin become revealed in verse 3b?

WHY did Paul write, "and now you know what is restraining.."(verse 6)

Apostasia is a compound word: do you know what each of the words means that make up apostasia?