Revelation 12:6 The Woman In The Wilderness Explained?

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

The Church is the group of people that are mentioned 19 times in the 1st three chapters of Revelation and then mysteriously are not mentioned again until Rev 22.

The Church is the 1st bride, and the 1st harvest. The Jews have had their eyes blinded.

Rom 11

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

The fig tree has TWO HARVESTS. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in what will the Jews say?

Jer 8

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

It seems many are blind to what we have been told. The scripture is read, and it goes right over their head.

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Jacob had two brides. Leah was the first bride and Rachel was the second and chosen bride. Jacob had to work 7 more years for his chosen bride.

So, the Church is the 1st bride. And that bride will be in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel. That means that the 1st bride will be in heaven BEFORE the 7 seals are opened.

You did very well right up to the last phrase. The first seals are church age. The first seal is the church sent out with the gospel. The 70th-week does not begin in Revelation until the 7th seal. The rapture is just before wrath, and wrath starts at the 6th seal, so the rapture is just before the 6th seal.

This fits, because the 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church. The pretrib rapture will end the church age and fulfill the number of martyrs God is waiting for.

[iamlamad]

Just now, truth7t7 said:

I disagree, you will closely not no scripture verses were provided to support your claim

Ha ha! We need to scripture to show that Paul wrote long before Darby!

[truth7t7]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

"The trib" starts at the 7th seal and goes to the 7th vial.

The raptured church was seen in heaven in chapter 7, before the "trib."

No raptured church is seen in chapter 7 as you claim, they are saints that came out of historical tribulation, not a rapture

Revelation 7:13-14KJV

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, tatwo said:

Light,

What's all the commotion concerning a "rapture?" Is the rapture or secret rapture where the Body of Christ is taken from the earth to heaven? Maybe, maybe not...ultimately it makes no difference.

The mild hostility here between you and truth7t7 has taken the forum from the woman in the wilderness...to a rapture.

Can either of you explain to me what the woman in the wilderness is connected to a rapture?

Tatwo...:)

HA HA! Great question!

 

[truth7t7]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Ha ha! We need to scripture to show that Paul wrote long before Darby!

Paul wrote long before Darby, and he didnt write of a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven

[iamlamad]

Just now, truth7t7 said:

No raptured church is seen in chapter 7 as you claim, they are saints that came out of historical tribulation, not a rapture

Revelation 7:13-14KJV

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Right: the "historical tribulation" is the church age! They came out of the world during the church age, one by one  and were still coming when John wrote.

[iamlamad]

Just now, truth7t7 said:

Paul wrote long before Darby, and he didnt write of a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven

You probably should say, "I can't find it." Millions have. 

Paul wrote that the rapture would come just before wrath. John shows us wrath begins with the Day of His wrath at the 6th seal. So the rapture according to Paul who invented the rapture (first wrote of it) will be pretrib—the trib not starting until the 7th seal. That is why we say PRE - before.

[truth7t7]

15 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You probably should say, "I can't find it." Millions have. 

Paul wrote that the rapture would come just before wrath. John shows us wrath begins with the Day of His wrath at the 6th seal. So the rapture according to Paul who invented the rapture (first wrote of it) will be pretrib—the trib not starting until the 7th seal. That is why we say PRE - before.

We Disagree, The "Catching Up/Rapture" takes place at the second coming and resurrection (Then Cometh The End)

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ, that will never take place

(Then Cometh The End) As (Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

Afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Edited January 8, 2022 by truth7t7

[iamlamad]

23 hours ago, tatwo said:

Greetings iamlamad,

While can agree with some of what you posted…there are parts that I would like to question a bit. For instance you state;

“This use of "she" used in place of "woman" is referencing Mary, the Mother of Jesus.”

I pick this particular one because this forum is a focus on the “woman” of Rev 12…her identity is very important and may not be what you think. Your view creates some confusion, here’s why.

While theologians & historians never seem to be able to agree as to the exact date John composed the “Revelation of Jesus Christ”…their disagreement is a non-issue. However, the majority of them that I have looked at seem to agree that it was written after the physical birth, death and spiritual resurrection of Christ.

Now let’s consider Rev. 1:1 the angel of the Lord speaking to John.

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon [quickly, swiftly, immediately] take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,” NASB [Emphasis mine]

So, “the things which must soon take place;”  would begin to transpire now or very shortly…but up to that moment…they had not yet…remember, this is a number of years “after” the physical birth, death and spiritual resurrection of Christ.

Now let’s consider Rev. 4:1, now it is the glorified Lord Himself speaking to John.

“After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after [with, among, after] these things.” NASB [Emphasis mine]

In the context of “After these things”…"these things” is surely understood as the “things” John was shown in Rev. 1:1 – 3:22? So the “things” that “must soon take place” (Rev. 1:1) look to occur immediately or quickly…they are then followed by what must take place after “these things.” (Rev. 4:1 – 22:21)?

This is giving definition to what appears to be a sequence, or a linear progression in time. Again…it is being said that, ”these things” would transpire now or soon but had not yet…it seems prudent to recognize that this encounter with John takes place some number of years after the physical birth, death and spiritual resurrection of Christ.

The book of Revelation is said to have been composed by John…and that…many years after Christ Yahshua’s birth and death. What do we do with the fact that it is the resurrected, glorified Christ that is telling John “things” that are yet to take place, that these are future “things” in His plan…that the Lord Himself states as having not yet occurred.

I mean this is begging the question…why would the Lord need to reveal, in a prophetic vision of the “future - end of the age” to John, clearly cued for “future” fulfillment, completion and understanding …by pointing us to that which has already taken place? Was He really telling us, that which had already taken place, was going to come to pass again, perhaps?

In any case, John was an apostle…he was there…he would have already understood that which he knew and lived through that had come to pass…things like Mary physically giving birth, the death and spiritual resurrection of Christ. Surely John did not see this as that, again? Primarily we should understand that the Lord told John that these things were to begin to take place soon perhaps starting now and roll out into the future unto the end of the age.

Which leaves us with…if this prophetic “woman” is not Mary…then who is she?  If this “woman” who gives birth to a “Son” in Rev. 12 is not Mary…then who is this “Son” that is caught away to God and His throne?

A clue might be that “Israel” is a type of this woman, and the “Man-Child” is a type of Christ? My work here can overlay most of what you said in your post.

Tatwo…:)

You read that passage as though John had written "ONLY" future things. He did not. Do you imagine Satan took a third of the angels with him as he was kicked out of heaven, something after John wrote? No! That happened before Adam was created.

Did you not notice in Rev. 4 & 5, when John looked into the throne room, Jesus was NOT SEEN at the right hand of the Fahter.

Did you notice that the Holy Spirit was still there (95 AD) when Jesus said He would send Him down as soon as He ascended. 

Did you ever wonder why in that first search John watched, "no man was found?" Jesus was later found, but WHY NOT in the first search?

John used "after this" or "after these things" as a transitional phrase when God changed directions in the vison. In 4:1 it only means, "after God finished dictating messages to the church..."

 

"it seems prudent to recognize that this encounter with John takes place some number of years after the physical birth, death and spiritual resurrection of Christ."

Of course, but a vision can be of the past, present or future or all mixed together. Face it: God showed John things in John's past.  John did not write, "Only things in the future." There is no "only." God was free to show John things in John's past - and he did. Rev. 12 is about Jesus' birth.

I will share with you word for word what Jesus spoke to me about Revelation 12.

"This was Me introducing John to the Dragon, and in particular, what the dragon would be doing in the last half of the week. Count how many times the Dragon is mentioned, including pronouns."

(He waited for me to count.)

"I chose to show John how the Dragon tried to kill me as a young Child. Those first five verses were a 'history lesson' to John."

Therefore I disagree with you. The first five verses were history to John. i am going to believe Jesus rather than you.

[iamlamad]

1 minute ago, truth7t7 said:

We Disagree, The "Catching Up" takes place at the second coming and resurrection (Then Cometh The End)

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ, that will never take place

(Then Cometh The End) As (Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

Afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

You left out something: TIME. There is TIME between verses 23 and 24. Paul was only outlining.