Nebuchadnezzar - 7 times shall pass over you (Daniel 4:25)

[Charlie744]

In Daniel 4:25, Nebuchadnezzar is told, 

"They shall drive you from men, your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you.."

There are relatively few theories on what this time element means, but almost 100% of folks believe that 'times' must represent 'years'.

Does anyone have an opinion on this AND can share their theory or reason (s) for it?

Thank you, Charlie

[truth7t7]

6 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

In Daniel 4:25, Nebuchadnezzar is told, 

"They shall drive you from men, your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you.."

There are relatively few theories on what this time element means, but almost 100% of folks believe that 'times' must represent 'years'.

Does anyone have an opinion on this AND can share their theory or reason (s) for it?

Thank you, Charlie

As Adamjaeger previously stated, 7 days or months wouldn't allow time for his hair and nails to grow as described below, has to be years as clearly seen

Daniel 4:33 KJV

33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

Edited December 30, 2021 by truth7t7

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

In Daniel 4:25, Nebuchadnezzar is told, 

"They shall drive you from men, your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you.."

There are relatively few theories on what this time element means, but almost 100% of folks believe that 'times' must represent 'years'.

Does anyone have an opinion on this AND can share their theory or reason (s) for it?

Thank you, Charlie

In prophecy about Israel's chastisement, the length of time they would be in the wilderness as chastisement was a "year for a day" (Nu.14:34). Again the chastisement of Jerusalem is depicted by Ezekiel laying on his side - a day for a year (Ezek.4:6). Again, the Babylon captivity  was decided by how many "Sabbaths" the Land has been deprived of (Lev.26:34) - a year for a Sabbath. Thus, Nebuchadnezzar, having connected himself to Judah, is deposed for a week of years.

Nebuchadnezzar is also the Type of the Beast. He will have an animals heart seven years (Dan.9).

Edited December 30, 2021 by AdHoc

[Charlie744]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

In prophecy about Israel's chastisement, the length of time they would be in the wilderness as chastisement was a "year for a day" (Nu.14:34). Again the chastisement of Jerusalem is depicted by Ezekiel laying on his side - a day for a year (Ezek.4:6). Again, the Babylon captivity  was decided by how many "Sabbaths" the Land has been deprived of (Lev.26:34) - a year for a Sabbath. Thus, Nebuchadnezzar, having connected himself to Judah, is deposed for a week of years.

Nebuchadnezzar is also the Type of the Beast. He will have an animals heart seven years (Dan.9).

Thanks for your comments!  I agree the year for a day application is found within the Scriptures, but why would it apply to Nebuchadnezzar, a Gentile? 

There are more than a few time elements coming along in Daniel's chapters, are they all year for a day principle?

I apologize but I would kindly ask if you would elaborate on your Daniel 9 reference....

Could God be using 'times' in a similar fashion as in chapter 3 where Nebuchadnezzar had the furnace heated 7 times? Could 'times' here in chapter 4 mean something other than years?

Except for the year for a day principle (which is used by SDA in almost all of Daniel's time elements), the only other reason for claiming the time element is in years is due to the comment made re: the feathers and the claws. But it does not say they became feathers or claws but they became LIKE feathers and claws - being out in the elements for a 7 day period is plenty of time to make someone look like a crazy person who is more than just unkept.  

So, if we put these two thoughts aside, is there any support within chapter 4 that directs us to a different time element? 

Thanks, Charlie

 

 

[truth7t7]

13 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks for your comments!  I agree the year for a day application is found within the Scriptures, but why would it apply to Nebuchadnezzar, a Gentile? 

There are more than a few time elements coming along in Daniel's chapters, are they all year for a day principle?

I apologize but I would kindly ask if you would elaborate on your Daniel 9 reference....

Could God be using 'times' in a similar fashion as in chapter 3 where Nebuchadnezzar had the furnace heated 7 times? Could 'times' here in chapter 4 mean something other than years?

Except for the year for a day principle (which is used by SDA in almost all of Daniel's time elements), the only other reason for claiming the time element is in years is due to the comment made re: the feathers and the claws. But it does not say they became feathers or claws but they became LIKE feathers and claws - being out in the elements for a 7 day period is plenty of time to make someone look like a crazy person who is more than just unkept.  

So, if we put these two thoughts aside, is there any support within chapter 4 that directs us to a different time element? 

Thanks, Charlie

 

 

Disagree, 7 days in the elements wont turns ones appearance in nails like bird claws, it represents long nails, and that dosent happen in 7 days as you claim

Daniel 4:33 KJV

33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks for your comments!  I agree the year for a day application is found within the Scriptures, but why would it apply to Nebuchadnezzar, a Gentile? 

There are more than a few time elements coming along in Daniel's chapters, are they all year for a day principle?

I apologize but I would kindly ask if you would elaborate on your Daniel 9 reference....

Could God be using 'times' in a similar fashion as in chapter 3 where Nebuchadnezzar had the furnace heated 7 times? Could 'times' here in chapter 4 mean something other than years?

Except for the year for a day principle (which is used by SDA in almost all of Daniel's time elements), the only other reason for claiming the time element is in years is due to the comment made re: the feathers and the claws. But it does not say they became feathers or claws but they became LIKE feathers and claws - being out in the elements for a 7 day period is plenty of time to make someone look like a crazy person who is more than just unkept.  

So, if we put these two thoughts aside, is there any support within chapter 4 that directs us to a different time element? 

Thanks, Charlie

 

 

There is no other explanation. I am the first to admit it. Daniel was an Hebrew prophet speaking to the Gentiles (that is why Chapters 2 to 7 are in Aramaic). It is generally accepted that besides the scriptures I gave you, the time from the command by Artaxerxes to the death of Jesus was 483 years exactly, giving more support for the day/year of prophecy.

I would advance another proof by saying that Nebuchadnezzar is a Type of the Beast, and he is the Beast for a seven, which the half, says John, some 600 years later, is a "time, times and a half a time". But I am hesitant to form doctrine from a Type.

Although I regard every word in scripture to be calculated by God, I cannot connect feathers and claws to time.

If you have a theory, I'm open.

[Selah7]

Hi, Charlie … I wonder if the number seven, in reference to the seven years it took Nebuchadnezzar to turn to God, represent spiritual perfection or completion?  I don’t know…

 

[Charlie744]

39 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

There is no other explanation. I am the first to admit it. Daniel was an Hebrew prophet speaking to the Gentiles (that is why Chapters 2 to 7 are in Aramaic). It is generally accepted that besides the scriptures I gave you, the time from the command by Artaxerxes to the death of Jesus was 483 years exactly, giving more support for the day/year of prophecy.

I would advance another proof by saying that Nebuchadnezzar is a Type of the Beast, and he is the Beast for a seven, which the half, says John, some 600 years later, is a "time, times and a half a time". But I am hesitant to form doctrine from a Type.

Although I regard every word in scripture to be calculated by God, I cannot connect feathers and claws to time.

If you have a theory, I'm open.

Thanks again for your thoughts!! 

There are more than a few explanations..... I have found 7 within the chapter 5 or in an earlier chapter 2 of Daniel. I would ask you to consider the following comments (not all 7 are being mentioned):

1) The time element of 7 years is used because of no more than 3 reasons (at least this is what I found during my study of this chapter) -

                      a) Must be 7 years because many scholars have specifically mentioned there is NO way a 'punishment period' less than 7 years is satisfactory....When I read these comments I was floored given they have essentially determined Nebuchadnezzar must be punished for a time period OF THEIR SATISFACTION. A day or a week just would not do but they COULD consider a period of 7 months.... (Nothing more than that!!!!),

                     b) The infamous year for a day principle that certainly can be found in Scripture but unfortunately, it has been and is being applied in almost every prophetic verse where there is a time element (especially Daniel). It is clear the 70 weeks prophecy is in years and is equal to 490 years with the 3 sections specifically identified or carved out. The ONLY other time element in Daniel that is to be applied in years is the 'time, times and 1/2 time --- but that is NOT the ONLY issue with that time prophecy. All other time elements in Daniel are in days.

 

 

 

 

 

37You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; 38and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold.

[AdHoc]

6 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

  a) Must be 7 years because many scholars have specifically mentioned there is NO way a 'punishment period' less than 7 years is satisfactory....When I read these comments I was floored given they have essentially determined Nebuchadnezzar must be punished for a time period OF THEIR SATISFACTION. A day or a week just would not do but they COULD consider a period of 7 months.... (Nothing more than that!!!!),

I agree with your sentiments here. This seems to be "private interpretation". 2nd Peter 1:20 forbids private interpretation. We have to establish a day for a year in scripture. What should help here is the process of elimination. If we interpret scripture with scripture, we may apply one of 5 different days found in scripture. They are; (i) The time of daylight, (ii) 24 hours - "the evening and the morning", (iii) an event like the "day of Jesus Christ", (iv) a year for a day in Israelite prophecy and (v) a thousand years is as a day for God.

I would say that ONLY a year for a day fits here.

12 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

 b) The infamous year for a day principle that certainly can be found in Scripture but unfortunately, it has been and is being applied in almost every prophetic verse where there is a time element (especially Daniel). It is clear the 70 weeks prophecy is in years and is equal to 490 years with the 3 sections specifically identified or carved out. The ONLY other time element in Daniel that is to be applied in years is the 'time, times and 1/2 time --- but that is NOT the ONLY issue with that time prophecy. All other time elements in Daniel are in days.

Yeah. This is a problem, but I understand that if we follow a few rules we have a good chance of getting to the bottom of the matter. At all times take it literally if nothing else is said, or if it does not create an absurdity. If a parable or allegory is indicated, interpret only using scripture. Pray about obscure scriptures. Be ready to admit that you don't know. A humble approach is more likely to be honored by God than some wild guess.

Let me know if you come up with a good reason why Nebuchadnezzar's lesson was other than 7 years.

Go well bro.

[AdHoc]

27 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

Hi, Charlie … I wonder if the number seven, in reference to the seven years it took Nebuchadnezzar to turn to God, represent spiritual perfection or completion?  I don’t know…

 

Interesting. Although Nebuchadnezzar is a Type of the Beast to come, he admits God's sovereignty and supremacy after having the heart of a Beast for 7 years (assuming that it is the meaning). For this humility his kingdom is restored. The Beast reigns for seven years but at the end he is unrepentant and kills the Two Witnesses of God. His kingdom is removed.