Revelation 10

[truth7t7]

28 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

What about leading captivity captive (Eph 4:7-9)?  Who were the captives that He led when He ascended?

Please tell me, I'm waiting?

[JoeCanada]

7 hours ago, Josheb said:

Yes, but Paul clearly states the END of the ages had come. He did not say only that the last days, end times had come but the end of the age had come. I asked a very specific question" What is you find that says the days and the END has lasted thousands of years? That question was not answered. Neither 1 Corinthians 10, Colossians 1, nor 1 Peter 1 say the last days or the end of the ages will last thousands of years. So, I ask you again, 

 

What is you find that says the days and the END has lasted thousands of years? 

You: Yes, but Paul clearly states the END of the ages had come.

No.....Paul clearly states the end of the ages HAVE COME,  NASB......  HAS COME, NIV...... ARE COME, KJV

You are putting a "past tense" spin on what Paul (didn't) said....."HAD COME"

'Has' is the third person singular present tense of 'have' while 'had' is the third person singular past tense and past participle of 'have.  Both are transitive verbs, but 'has' is used in sentences that talk about the present while 'had' is used in sentences that talk about the past.

 

Can I point to a scripture that says...." the days and the END has lasted thousands of years? 

No prophets or Apostles were privy to a specific time frame. Only an all knowing God knows. That's why Peter used the analogy of creation to tells us what a day is in God's time frame, and Paul tells us we are in the last days. Go back and read my posts. The seven day/seven thousand year prophecy is spelled out. 

You want specific scriptures?

C'mon man!

What the prophets and apostles  did prophecy was a future time, and used phrases like....."end of time"..."last days"... "time of the end".... "period of final indignation"..."many days in the future"...etc.

 

[truth7t7]

8 hours ago, Josheb said:

Do you think these bodies later ascended like Jesus, or do you think they died again like Lazarus, even though Lazarus was pre-Calvary and these raised bodies occur post-Calvary?

Scripture teaches the resurrection is at the second coming on the last day, so those seen were raised from the dead just as Lazarus

Edited January 16, 2022 by truth7t7

[Retrobyter]

On 1/13/2022 at 10:47 AM, Last Daze said:

How do you reconcile this:

• Also the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52-53

Aren't they the first fruits (plural) that were raised after Christ?  OT saints?

Shalom, Last Daze.

No, brother. These that were raised to life were NOT raised as immortal bodies. They would have to die again.

Yeshua` HIMSELF is the "firstfruits" of the Resurrection; that is, He alone (so far) has been raised to eternal life. Paul tells us this in 1 Corinthians 15:20:

1 Corinthians 15:20 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

The verbs here, "is risen" and "[is] become," are in the singular number!

These that came out of the tombs were raised to life at Yeshua`s DEATH; so, He hadn't yet been raised by His Father. They only came out of their tombs after His Resurrection and then entered into Jerusalem, the holy city, appearing to many people.

To confirm this, here's the Greek:

52 καὶ τὰ μνημεῖα ἀνεῴχθησαν καὶ πολλὰ σώματα τῶν κεκοιμημένων ἁγίων ἠγέρθησαν·

53 καὶ ἐξελθόντες ἐκ τῶν μνημείων μετὰ τὴν ἔγερσιν αὐτοῦ εἰσῆλθον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν πόλιν καὶ ἐνεφανίσθησαν πολλοῖς.

Transliterated, this becomes:

52 kai ta mneemeia aneoochtheesan kai polla soomata toon kekoimeemenoon hagioon eegertheesan;

53 kai exelthontes ek toon mneemeioon meta teen egersin autou eiseelthon eis teen hagian polin kai enefanistheesan pollois.

Translating each word in place, we get:

52 and the tombs were-opened and many bodies of-the those-having-fallen-asleep holy-ones woke-up/arose;

53 and having-gone-forth out of-the tombs after the resurrection of-Him went into the holy city and appeared to-many.

These are two statements made with a separation of the Greek "semicolon" (the single raised dot) at the end of verse 52. Whoever made the verse divisions in this location, did so intelligently. The two verses happened days apart from each other.

The conclusion is, then, that Yeshua` the Messiah of God ALONE is the "firstfruits."

Edited January 16, 2022 by Retrobyter

[Retrobyter]

On 1/6/2022 at 7:30 AM, Ancient said:

Yep no worries. But you are in error to refer them as Jewish feast days. Is Yahweh Jewish? 

NKJ Leviticus 23:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them:`The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts. 

The English word LORD is the translation of YHWH most commonly referred to as Yahweh.

Shalom

Shalom, Ancient.

Just to touch base with you and thank you for your first post in this thread, I'd just like to mention that I believe YHWH is wrongly pronounced "Yahweh" and should rather be pronounced as at the end of many names, like "YirmeYahuw," "MattitYahuw," Yesha`Yahuw," etc. The vav (or waw) is usually given the status of a vowel marker for the "ow" or "uw" sound, even though it's technically a consonant. Thus, I write (on occasion), "YaHuWH," although I most often just write "YHWH," as a transliteration of HaShem, and usually italicized as a foreign word (to English).

I've said it before; I just can't understand how FORGETTING how His Name is pronounced is "honoring the Name!" David knew it and wrote it frequently in His psalms and prophecies, as did many of the other prophets of Elohiym.

Regardless, I believe all else you stated is correct. Thank you.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Scripture teaches the resurrection is at the second coming on the last day, so those seen were raised from the dead just as Lazarus

Shalom, truth7t7.

You are exactly correct. This is a good conclusion to the events of the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of our Master Yeshua` (our "Lord Jesus"). So, raised back to life as mortal bodies, they would once again have to die, as Elezar (Lazarus) did.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Retrobyter
to add a thought.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Scripture teaches the resurrection is at the second coming on the last day, so those seen were raised from the dead just as Lazarus

Shalom, truth7t7.

We've discussed this elsewhere, but "the last day" is VERY relative when it comes to prophecy. Yeshua`, being the Messiah of God, has this written about Him:

Malachi 4:1-3 (KJV)

1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up," saith the LORD of hosts, "that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this," saith the LORD of hosts.

This is why we have this written by Kefa ("Peter"):

2 Peter 3:1-13 (KJV)

1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord (Master) and Saviour (Deliverer; Rescuer):

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying,

"Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation!"

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens (skies) were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was (the antediluvian world), being overflowed with water, perished (the FLOOD): 7 But the heavens (skies) and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men (the Great White Throne Judgment, Revelation 20:11-15).

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord (the Master Yeshua`) as a thousand years, and A THOUSAND YEARS AS ONE DAY. 9 The Lord (the Master Yeshua`) is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord (the Master Yeshua`s Day) will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens (skies) shall pass away (shall LITERALLY "pass by") with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth (land) also and the works (of human beings) that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God (Yeshua`s Father), wherein the heavens (skies) being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens (skies) and a new earth (land), wherein dwelleth righteousness (Revelation 21:1-22:5).

Remember Yeshua`s description in Revelation 1:

Revelation 1:12-16 (KJV)

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance (face) was as the sun shineth in his strength!

Because Yeshua` is the "Sun of righteousness," when He comes LITERALLY as "the Light of the World," He will LITERALLY cause it to be ONE SINGLE DAY (the SUN never sets) that lasts for a THOUSAND YEARS! At the beginning of that 1,000-year Day, He raises to life those who belong to Him and they rule and reign with Him. At the END of that 1,000-year Day, He JUDGES all, the "wheat" He will have brought into His "barn" and the "tares" pulled out of His Kingdom shall be bundled in sheaves to burn! THEY are cast into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, or the Lake of Burning Sulfur.

THEN, we are brought into His FATHER'S Kingdom, the New Earth and its New Skies, with the New Jerusalem - God's TENT - descending and landing upon the New Earth, forever and ever.

And the Voice comes out of the Throne (not out of "heaven") that says,

Revelation 21:3-4 (KJV)

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (Greek: ek tou thronou = "out of-the throne") saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle (tent) of God is with men, and he will dwell (He will tent) with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

[truth7t7]

Deleted

Edited January 16, 2022 by truth7t7

[Last Daze]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

No, brother. These that were raised to life were NOT raised as immortal bodies. They would have to die again.

Yeshua` HIMSELF is the "firstfruits" of the Resurrection; that is, He alone (so far) has been raised to eternal life. Paul tells us this in 1 Corinthians 15:20:

1 Corinthians 15:20 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

I don't disagree that Christ is the firstfruits.  He was raised first.  I also don't think there's enough information to conclude one way or the other that He's the only one so far raised immortal.  There's Matthew 27:52-53 which doesn't explicitly say if the raised saints were mortal or immortal, and there's also Ephesians 4:8 where He led captive the captives.  I'm not going to be dogmatic about it but I don't think it's as cut and dried as you presume.  Why do we never hear of the acts of the raised saints?

[tatwo]

3 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I don't disagree that Christ is the firstfruits.  He was raised first. 

Why do we never hear of the acts of the raised saints?

Last Daze,

About your first statement...it's likely to be less chronologically focused and more that He was the first of His kind...the "new creation."

As for your latter question...well I must say, I never thought of it in those terms. The answer should be interesting.

Tatwo...:)