Is America Missing in Prophecy?

[nebula]

Did somebody say Water Buffalo ?

[Fez]

Where on earth did you find that! I am going to have that silly tune in my head all night

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Veggie Tales

Originally found int This video

[BlindSeeker]

I guess the description could be that of an American bison. I have however felt and thus leaned to understanding it as having the appearance (though it be a facade) meaning for peace, but still speak with the voice (agenda) of the dragon.

Who says both cannot apply?

Wasn't me

. . .did you see which way they went

[Guest JamiLea]

If you are an American Christian, I feel that you owe it to yourself to prayerfully consider the following posts. It is a progressive reasoning of just how America may well be mentioned in scriptures.

Also I have provided links to historical data for your verification that I believe is relevant to rightly dividing certain prophesies.

We hear it all the time, "Isn't it amazing that the scriptures are silent about America?" And I thought the same thing myself, at one time. But I don't believe it to be so anymore. I submit the following for those who wish to prayerfully ponder whether America is, or is not, in scriptures.

I have only submitted a fraction of information available as I realize it can be overwhelming. Also, I will endeavor to satisfy any questions posed.

Please do not assume I am anti-America. I'm not. I simply believe God is going to deal with the sins of this and every nation, however, I believe the USA is specifically mentioned.

Thank you.

Peace

"Here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Revelation 13-19:4 speaks of the final judgement of the LAST of a concessions of spiritual "Babylons." To understand who the 8th spiritual Babylon is, we need to give heed to the clues given by the angel to John in chapter 17.

First, we know that the beast "was, and is not, and yet is." That phrase tells us that there was going to be a point in time when this "seven headed beast" was not going to be represented by a physical country. Yet, after the passage of time the beast would again "rise up out of the sea" and exist briefly as the seventh head, and then ultimately as a final beast (country) that would be "THE EIGHT... and goeth into perdition," or complete destruction.

The sea in 17:15, we are told, represents "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." This verse is one in this chapter that convinces many that the beast is the Roman Catholic Church, for it has established itself in every corner of the earth. However, I am persuaded that this symbolic Beast is multi faceted and includes a civil nation and not just a religious institution.

The key I believe to understanding who is this 8th Beast is to first understand the importance of Israel. We should take notice that she TOO "was, and was not, and yet is." Even today Israel is "spiritually called Sodom, and Egypt," because they rejected Jesus as their promised Messiah (Rev. 11:8).

By continuing in the old Mosaic law (which had fulfilled it's purpose of portraying the death of Christ thru the prophetic action of animal sacrifices,) they spiritually went back to Egypt. Hence they are called "Egypt" to represent they are still in bondage to their sins, while "Sodom" represents how perverted their religion has become without the Temple, priesthood, and ultimately their lack of acceptance of Jesus, their promise Deliverer.

The beast mention in Revelation 13 -16, is the rise and fall of the final Eight Beast. In chapter 17:1 the angel tells John, "I will shew thee the Judgement of the great whore that sitteth on many waters," and in verse 7 the angel says, "I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her." See, there is a clue here, there are two, the woman, and the beast. I am persuaded that the woman, or the whore, can represent false religion of any kind, but in the end time it will be the mass of false Christianity which has diluted the teachings of Christ and have prostituted themselves to the 8th Beast for economic reasons. (In this country, the church/faith based organizations have accepted a tax-exempt status.)

The seven heads of the beast represents several actual empires that will have catered to various false religious systems while at the same time having a direct contact with the nation Israel. A clue the Angel gives to John is "here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." This is where many say these are seven hills of Rome. However the angel continues by saying, "There are seven kings five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come." Now the seven mountains represents seven different empires that will have had a direct effect on the nation Israel (which was, and was not, and yet is.)

At the time of John the angel says, "five are fallen, and one is." It is easy to know who all six of these are. The one which was existing at the time of John was Rome. Now Rome "had great iron teeth: it devoured and break into pieces, and stamp the residue with the feet of it and was diverse from all the beast that were before it," and therefore fulfilled God's promise of judgement against Israel for not cleaving to Him and obeying His voice as told in Duet. chapter 28. Thus in 70 A.D. Israel ceased to exist as a nation. The Roman General Titus, unable to negotiate a settlement with the stiff neck rebellion of the Jew, was obliged to execute God's judgement upon them.

Realizing the seven headed beast has direct relationship to Israel, we can simply go back to the birth of Israel to see who the fallen five are.

Joseph, betrayed by his brothers was sold as a slave and ended up sitting on a throne in Egypt. While his brothers meant it for evil, God meant it for good. For by this brotherly betrayal came the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham, to make his descendants a mighty nation, and give them the land of Canaan. Through them He would show all the world His greatness.

Nearly 400 years later, Egypt afraid of the multitude of Jewish settlers in the land enslaved them. Thus, Egypt is beast head number one.

Many years later, after the death of King Solomon, his son, Rehoboam was confronted by Jeroboam, who represented the ten northern tribes. Jeroboam asked Rehoboam to lower the previous taxes that Solomon placed upon them. Rehoboam sought the wisdom of "the old men that stood before his father... But he forsook the counsel of the old men which they had given him, and consulted with the young men that were grown up with him," (1 Kings 12).

The result was a division in the nation. The ten northern tribes revolted and set Jeroboam up as their King. Jeroboam, however, became afraid and said, "If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of the people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah." "Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, it is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt."

What a mistake, for turning the people to idols only brought the judgement of God upon them. God raised up Assyria to take the ten northern tribes in to captivity. Not heeding the commandment not to intermarry, they lost their pure Jewish identity, and became Samaritans. Thus the ten northern tribes were lost, not by misplacement, but rather by forfeit of their pure identity as Jews. Thus Assyria is the Second head of the Beast.

Then over two hundred years later, Judah was taken captive by Babylon. Thus Babylon is the their head of the beast. In Daniel 8:20,21, we see that the two empires that would follow Babylon would be the Medes/Persia empire and Greece. Heads of the beast number four and five. So at the time of John's vision in Revelations, the five that had fallen were, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medes/Persia, and Greece. The six head which was present at John's time was Rome, and Rome destroyed Israel as a nation.

Since 70 A.D. and prior to 1948, no map recognize any land as Israel, for Israel "which was, was not." Yet fulfilling his promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, God preserved their descendants and has regathered them back to the land of their inheritance. Thus, Israel "that was, and is not, yet is." And therefore, so is the beast.

Now what brought Israel back as a nation (apart from God's sovereignty) was global sympathy for the Jews because of their persecution in World War II. Whereupon at that time, their land was part of the British Empire.

History tells us that while Britain was willing to allot a piece of land for Jewish settlers, they did not want to relinquish control or possession of the land. Still, after the Jews frustration with England and the Palestinians, they themselves rose up and fought and prevailed, taking control and occupancy of some land. England then conceded and gave that land to the Jews (under international pressure) so they could once again be a people, a nation.

Now this all may seem good and well, except God requires that when a gift is given, (if it is to be acceptable with God,) it must be given of one's free will. Otherwise, it is not a gift of charity. Therefore, England, who chose not to bless the descendants of Abraham with a free will offering of charity, chose to forfeit the blessings of God. So, England than, being the seventh head, "when he cometh, he must continue a short space" (Rev. 17:10).

"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eight, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition" (verse 11). Now rises up out of the sea is the eight beast, which we are told is "of," or from, the seven. Could it mean that the eight beast is a mixture of the seven heads or empires, like some great melting pot? For it does have "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." Or is it "of the seven" as a descendant, or offspring of the seventh empire?

Either way, America is the Cinderella for this glass slipper. We are the land of immigrants, as well as the offspring of England as the Brave New World. But what brought us to as place of global supremacy, and until recently the closest ally to Israel? Was it not the same thing that set the stage for the birth of Israel, World War II?

Remember, Revelation 13-16 is about the rise and fall of the Eight Beast that goes into perdition, and chapter 17 clarifies who the eight was by giving us a progression of empires? Well in chapter 13:3 we see the eight beast receiving a wound to one of its heads "as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

I seriously proposed we consider the possibility that this wound to the head, from which we amazingly recovered, was Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor, a historical event that keeps resurfacing. It was this event that brought America into the war. And yet, despite Japan's fury, speed, and might, Pearl Harbor some how survived and came back to defend itself. Incredible.

But do we recall how the was ended? It was with the dropping of The Bomb on Hiroshima and the second bomb on Nagasaki.

Such display of power was never before witnessed. the whole world said, "Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with Him?" John beheld in his vision "another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns of a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exercises all the power of the first beast... and he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire (The Bomb) come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." (vrs.11-13).

This second beast that looks like a lamb (having two horns) and SEEMS to be for peace, "exercises ALL the authority of the first" is none other than the office of the Presidency. Yet while he seems to be for peace, His mouth is really speaking the agenda of the dragon.

Now we see this more clearly as EX-President Clinton and his wife, took posture against Israel. They expressed their views as to the rights of a Palestine State. EX-President Bill Clinton pressured Israel with the threat of loosing American support if they didn't comply in the Peace talks and policies. Arafat has declared there WILL BE a Palestine State, to which Israel has issued warning not to try it. Read again the fate of the eight beast from Rev. 13-18. Who else fits this better than us.

So much has happened this year to turn the European Union and the UN against America, as well as the enabling the E.U. to be a viable threat against America with the establishing of the E.U. military, headed up by a Germany General.

DIDN'T Germany start the last 2 world wars?

The revelation of the rise of the 8th Beast begins in Rev. 13 and in that passage there is no mention of the woman sitting upon the beast at the time of it's coming to "his power, and his seat, and great authority." Chapters 14 and 15a speak of the iniquities of the beast and of the judgement that would befall it in chapters 15b and 16.

This vision so overwhelmed the Apostle that in chapter 17 the angel clarifies what he had seen, as well as why and how her judgement would come.

Chapters 18 and 19 speak of the absolute destruction and glory given to God for His righteous judgements.

It seems to me that when the 8th Beast rises to its might (in Rev. 13), there is a separation between the beast (civil) and the woman (religious), because the woman is not mentioned. Or simply, a separation between church and state. BUT, in order for the civil government to do what it is prophesied to do in the last days, initiate a new economic system, it will need the support of the religious sector, or faith based organizations, to assure that such an economic system is ok, hence in chapter 17 the woman is on the beast.

Seeing how the church/religious systems have allowed herself/themselves to be regulated by the civil authorities in order to enjoy tax exempt status, she/they will feel obliged to assure her populace that the new economic structure is not "the mark of the beast." This will not be difficult to do for the whoring daughters of confused Babylon, for they have perpetuated many false end time doctrines and have "waxed worst, deceiving and being deceived."

Our adversary has spued out a flood out of his mouth of these false end time message and doctrines with which he might cause the true Church to be carried away with the flood of error that is rampant in these other whoring psuedo churches, who are serving mammon instead of God and compromising God's Truth for their increased attendance, lest they offend the contributors.

Just as God always had His civil leaders and His spiritual leaders, so the devil has imitated this structural order of God in his attempt to defeat God's people. Hence the beast AND the woman which rides it. They will selfishly merge, becoming "one" in heart and purpose, because of their greed for filthy mammon in these final days. Not unlike the nation of Israel back when she rejected her Redeemer.

Remember, you cannot serve God and mammon both.

Interesting note:

President Roosevelt's speech after Pearl Harbor attack:

• "Yesterday, December 7, 1941-a date which will live in infamy-the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan . . . As Commander in Chief of the army and navy I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense.
  Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us. No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory. . . . With confidence in our armed forces-with the unbounding determination of our people-we will gain the inevitable triumph - so help us God. . ."
  
  
  • "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited."
    President Franklin D. Roosevelt suddenly died nearly 3

[Guest JamiLea]

Blind Seeker -

OK, I am responding as promised from the other thread.

It is an interesting train of logic you are following here. There are many things that to me make sense, yet other things which do not.

Comparing Pearl Harbor to the fatal wound which was healed - that seems like a big stretch to me. I'm not an historian, but I do not believe this attack went down on record as being a fatal wound to America from which it was healed - a serious wound, maybe, but not fatal. Besides, the Navy is only one branch of the armed services, and I am not so sure that a wound to one branch of the armed services could be considered a fatal blow to the entire country.

I am also confused in that it seems to me that you are mixing "the beast that came out of the sea," "the beast that came out of the Earth," and the beast the woman is riding on. In Rev. 13, it is clear that the 7-headed beast with ten horns etc. (vs. 1-10) is a separate beast from the one with two horns like a lamb that speaks like a dragon (vs. 11-18). For one thing, the beast that comes out of the Earth makes the Earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, so how can they be the same? For another, this beast has a statue built to honor the beast with the wounded-healed head. Now, I can see how the beast that comes out of the sea matches the beast the beast the woman rides on because they both have seven heads and ten horns, but not how either of them can be the beast that comes out of the Earth. I don't know if you meant to intermix these, but that is how it is reading to me, and it does not make sense.

Another thing that troubles me is that it looks like you are saying that America is the 8th beast with the nations of Egypt through Britain being the seven heads. Fair enough. But in Rev. 13:3 it says, "One of the heads of the beast seemed to have a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed." How can this be something in America's past when the heads of the beast are former nations? If the seven heads are the seven great nations of the past, would it not make sense then that it means one of the fallen empires came back to power?

Let's see, Egypt and Britain are still around, just not so powerful as they once were. Could there be something there? For example: Isn't Yassar Arafat an Egyptian by birth, or something like that? Or could Brittain's allegience to the U.S. have something to do with it coming back to power? (I am just playing speculation games - I have no claims that any of this actually means anything.) But do you see my train of thought here?

The prostitute Babylon being false religion. Well, I don't see how this fits with some of the other descriptions of her in Rev. 18, where all the merchants of the Earth or mourning their loss of buying cargo from her and such (vs. 11-13) or the kings of the Earth who commited adultery with her mourning over her (vs. 9-10). OK, I do not see this fitting with false religion. "The merchants of the Earth grew rich from her excessive luxeries." From false religion????? I know there is some wealth floating around with the Christian music industry and mega-churches and the Vatican and tele-Evangelists, but hardly this much! Nor do I see too many world leaders flirting with religion. I believe the mystery of Babylon goes much deeper than this.

Another thing that bothers me, how come when people point to America and the evil that comes out of it, they point to politics and wealth? What about Hollywood?!!! Persoanlly, when I think of American filth, Hollywood, the music industry, and the news media are the first things that come to my mind. Would you not say that these avenues have spread "Americanism" more than the political or financial industries?

I also do not see how the descriptions of the people of the Earth worshipping the beast fits with America. It sounds to me like there are a lot of nations not too happy with us, or even hating us. And although I can see how people would look at America's military accomplishments and compare that to the nations of the Earth marveling, "Who is like unto the beast? Who can make war with the beast?" I don't see this happening. Terrorists are currently at war with us (not to get too political here, but anyone who thinks the terrorists have raised the white flag are dreaming). France, Germany, and Russia have opposed us. North Korea, Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia aren't acting very afraid of us and our military might. So, I would have to say that A + B or not equalling C with this one. Close, but not quite.

With all that said, it makes sense to me that you are onto something, but I do not see all the propositions panning out as they have been laid out.

It says became rich with excessive luxuries. It doesn't give a yard stick on the luxury, it just says rich with excessive. False religion does seem to be doing this these days. It doesn't say which religion and is probably a combination of all of them because well, we know that false religion is just that, a false religion and there are so many movements today, even in the Christian churches.

And yes, I agree with the "who can make war with the beast?" part but it doesn't actually say that nobody can make war with the beast right? or am I thinking too deeply?

[Guest JamiLea]

Aren't there 7 continents total? If the beast is referred to as a man right? Wouldn't the 8th beast be the antichrist who will come out of America and rise up? I don't know, just throwing out suggestions. I'm new to Revelations in reading. Sorry if they sound dumb and unfounded.

Maybe people don't think America is mentioned because it has the most pride, money loving, false religion, etc there is around. Maybe that's the exact reason why it will be the 8th beast?

[BlindSeeker]

How do we know the wound isn't the terrorist attacks we suffered on 9/11 years ago? This is all very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I will consider this prayerfully.

World War II brought about the the decline of the British Empire, the rebirth of Israel and catapulted America into global supremacy. The attack on Pearl Harbor brought us into the war and bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki for all intents and purposes it ended it.

Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

Re 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Re 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

[BlindSeeker]

Aren't there 7 continents total? If the beast is referred to as a man right? Wouldn't the 8th beast be the antichrist who will come out of America and rise up? I don't know, just throwing out suggestions. I'm new to Revelations in reading. Sorry if they sound dumb and unfounded.

Maybe people don't think America is mentioned because it has the most pride, money loving, false religion, etc there is around. Maybe that's the exact reason why it will be the 8th beast?

The 8th beast comes up out of the water -

Re 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

This is a nation, empire, governmental entity.

Re 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The second beast is a man from the earth, like Adam -

Re 13:11 And I beheld

another beast coming up out of the earth

; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

This man is the leader of the 8th beast, nation, empire, governmental entity.

Re 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

[Guest JamiLea]

How do we know the wound isn't the terrorist attacks we suffered on 9/11 years ago? This is all very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I will consider this prayerfully.

World War II brought about the the decline of the British Empire, the rebirth of Israel and catapulted America into global supremacy. The attack on Pearl Harbor brought us into the war and bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki for all intents and purposes it ended it.

Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

Re 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Re 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Couldn't Germany be one that was wounded to death, like for instance the holocaust? If this could be a possibility, what dragon gave power to Germany during this time? I don't know, just thinking. But then in vs 18, that leads me to believe it's America again lol