All Christians believe in predestination

[Omegaman 3.0]

3 minutes ago, branchesofHim said:

Amen. @missmuffet is absolutely correct. Choice is the determining factor. Although God already knows what the choice will ultimately be, He graciously gives everyone the option to repent and choose the right way. Read the book of Jonah. God was going to destroy Nineveh, but they repented, and so did God. Man makes the ultimate choice. 

Interesting that you would bring that up. I think that is a good example. God said "Jonah, go!". Jonah (using his free will said: "Nope, I am going the other direction, I am booking a cruise to Tarshish!"

Then God using his own free will (and who is going to win in a battle of wills anyway?) said, "I have another plan Jonah, I have arranged and all expenses paid passage to Nineveh, and you will take it!"

After arriving at God's planned port of entry, Johan went to Nineveh, and did what God said!

God did not make Johan go the rest of the way to Nineveh, but He did make Jonah willing to go. It is God, who grants repentance!

[Alive]

Free will for man is clearly limited in scope.

one of those is to be at a point where we are willing to leave behind pre-conceived notions and honestly consider what other siblings see in scripture. To understand that we may be misinformed and then carefully examine anew.

This is a sign of both human maturity and spiritual maturity.

We never stop learning, if we bring our ‘Free will’ to bear on a subject.

Are we ‘willing’ to learn? Are we ‘willing’ to open our hearts to our brethren, who are, as we are…desirous to learn of our God?

[branchesofHim]

8 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

You might think that, but what I am referring to is not, in my opinion, interpreting scripture. You like to point out, that pre-tribbers prefer to use a literally approach to the Bible regarding end times passages.

I prefer that approach to soteriology. When the Bible says things like it is God who chooses, or that some people are elect (chosen), or that there is predestination, and no one comes UNLESS the Father draws them, etc., and I then I accept those as true, that is not interpretation, that is just believing what the text says.

Good verification of your position @Omegaman 3.0. Many factors to be considered. The scripture states it clearly. Choice is evident from Genesis to Revelation and it is man who chooses what he will.

2 Peter 3:[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[Omegaman 3.0]

9 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Regarding pretrib, midtrib and post trib I guess time will tell won't it?

Most certainly, and a big part of me, hopes that you are correct. At the same time, I recognize that for the Christian, persecution is a blessing, do I want to refuse God's blessing? Persecution purifies, and makes the church stronger, isn't that desirable?

In the final analysis though, I think we all want God's will to be done, however that works out!

[branchesofHim]

4 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

God did not make Johan go the rest of the way to Nineveh, but He did make Jonah willing to go. It is God, who grants repentance!

And it was Jonah who made the decision to go. Shalom

[Omegaman 3.0]

8 minutes ago, branchesofHim said:

Good verification of your position @Omegaman 3.0. Many factors to be considered. The scripture states it clearly. Choice is evident from Genesis to Revelation and it is man who chooses what he will.

Thanks for your reply. I have this theory, that everything, and I mean absolutely every thing, is limited by it's own nature. I cannot flap my arms and fly, that is not part of my nature, no matter how badly I want to.

I can do something that God cannot do. God cannot lie, it is not part of His nature. I sure can, because it is part of my nature.

If it is not obvious, the cow won't choose the meat, not in it's nature, though it COULD choose to exercise it's free will and eat, it will not. Same for the lion and the straw. With man, it is not in his nature to choose God, we naturally rebel against God, unless . . . 
God give us a NEW nature, then we are free of our bondage to sin, and can respond to God's offer, with our free will which is now inclined towards Him. That is why we must be born again!

[branchesofHim]

2 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

13 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Regarding pretrib, midtrib and post trib I guess time will tell won't it?

Most certainly, and a big part of me, hopes that you are correct. At the same time, I recognize that for the Christian, persecution is a blessing, do I want to refuse God's blessing? Persecution purifies, and makes the church stronger, isn't that desirable?

In the final analysis though, I think we all want God's will to be done, however that works out!

Hebrews 2:[1] Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
[2] For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
[3] How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
[4] God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

[Omegaman 3.0]

14 minutes ago, branchesofHim said:

And it was Jonah who made the decision to go. Shalom

I agree, because God "persuaded" him to do so!

[branchesofHim]

2 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I agree, because God "persuaded" him to do so!

Amen and amen. Shalom

Philippians 2:[13] For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

[Omegaman 3.0]

For this not being a discussion thread, it sure suddenly became one!