Jerusalem is Falling #2

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On 2/14/2022 at 11:36 AM, truth7t7 said:

No place in history have the literal events seen below been seen or fulfilled

Revelation 8:7-12KJV

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Brother,

The events shown in the 4 trumpets are symbolic of the troubles that the children of Israel who rejected Jesus and the gospel kingdom go through during the time after 70 AD after they were scattered or taken into captivity by Rome.

The key to understanding these trumpets and Revelation is, "What is symbolic, what do the symbols represent, and what is literal?"

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If I said that fig tree or the olive tree were symbols of the children of Israel, maybe you would agree. If the 1st trumpet said that 1/3 of the trees were burnt up, would that be too much of a jump from literal to symbolic about Israel after 70 AD? The trees are the children of Israel? 

If the 1st trumpet said the all the green grass were burnt up, could you see the grass as a symbol for people? Isa 40:6-7, "All flesh is grass, ..." and "surly the people is grass". 

In the previous posts I have given further examples of the symbolism in the OT. The symbolic language of the OT is used to communicate the Revelation to Israel.

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 I think that you especially will find this interesting.

In a previous post about the 5th trumpet, I asked the question, "In the 5th trumpet we see Satan coming out of the Abyss, where does it show in the seals/trumpets narrative, Satan being thrown into the abyss?"

I said that the answer is found in the perception that the Revelation was parallel, which in some of your posts you said the you also believed that the passages were parallel.

Then observe that the event of 5th trumpet, Satan coming out of the abyss, is parallel to Rev 20, which also shows Satan coming out of the abyss in v 7.

They are the same event.

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The answer to the question of, "Where in the seals/trumpets narrative does it show Satan being thrown into the abyss"? 

Is that the seal/trumpets do not show Satan being thrown into the abyss, they only show him coming out of the abyss,

The event is shown in Rev 20 as being after the 1st resurrection, which was when Jesus was resurrected.

The seals begin in 37 AD ish with the rejection of the Pentecost gospel kingdom.

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You believe the some passages are parallel?

The seal/trumpets are parallel to Rev 20.

The trumpets are parallel to the vials.

They are parallel, but show the events from different viewpoints, beginning and ending at different points on the parallel time lines.

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You believe in 2 resurrections?

Rev 20 shows 2 resurrections, Jesus and the OT saints as the first resurrection, then Jesus coming for the kingdom at the second resurrection just before the fire from heaven that burns up the planet.

The seals/trumpets begin after the first resurrection and end at the second resurrection when the 7th trumpet blows.

The 7th vial, also the fire from heaven, happens just after the second resurrection, which is not shown there because the vials are about the enemies of Israel.

The key to the parallel time lines is that the resurrection of Jesus, the first resurrection of Rev 20, was in 33 AD. 

The second resurrection of Rev 20 has yet to happen.

This shows that the events shown in Rev 20 are taking place between 33 AD and our future, Centuries and centuries, over 1900 years now.

Then understanding that the seals/trumpets and the vials cover roughly the same time period in the parallel time lines, we can see the the seals/trumpets and vials also take place over the same time period, 1900 years ish. 

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Now, with this Rev 20 time period being over 1900 years, and parallel to the seals/trumpets and vials, then we come to the understanding that the time periods of the seals/trumpets and vials are also over 1900 years ish.

What this all means is that the 7 times and the events that are shown are covering centuries, 1900 years, and not a literal 7 years, as some say.

Then, placing the events in a 1900 year time period instead of 7 years, we might ask, "When do these events happen in that 1900 years?"

Say, "When does the mill period of Rev 20 happen?" It is happening now and began sometime after the first resurrection and is ending at the second resurrection.

This makes the literal 1000 years a symbolic number instead of literal.

Following the same logic, understanding that the timelines are parallel, what about the events shown in the trumpets and vial time lines? Knowing that they also cover 1900 years ish?

As we start placing the events, say of the seal/trumpets, in a 1900 year time line instead of a 7 year or 3 1/2 years, knowing that the events BEGAN just after the first resurrection, then we can begin to see that the events are symbolic and not literal.

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You can't just make the symbols mean anything that you want.

They are understood by looking at the symbols in the OT.

The Passover, lamb sacrifice, serpents, feasts, 40, 7, 10, 5, waters, fire, earth, heavens, stars, sun, wheat, chaff, gold, silver, brass, iron, mouth, and more are all seen as symbolic images in places in the OT.

The symbols of the Rev are understood by these OT symbols.

It is God's timeless language to communicate to us.

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Brother, abandon the pretrib timeline of 7 years, it doesn't fit.

The Rev is centered on the children of Israel and not the gentiles or planet earth.

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Please consider this,

Rev 4:12, shows ONLY John being taken through the door, Literally.

But the literalists switch and say that the event is symbolic, without evidence.

So they just switch back and forth trying to make their theories fit the 7 year theory, making things literal when they are symbols in symbolic passages.

They make the symbols the subject, instead of what the symbols represent.

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[abcdef]

On 2/14/2022 at 11:36 AM, truth7t7 said:

No place in history have the literal events seen below been seen or fulfilled

Revelation 8:7-12KJV

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

The Bible is not silent about the time between 70 AD and 1967. 

There are no gaps in the timeline as shown by the statue of Dan. 2, which is parallel to the other timelines.

Pretrib and Preterism both ignore this time period after the great scattering.

Try to find the scriptures that describe this time period, 70 AD- 1967.

When you do, then you will understand the time lines more clearly, and understand that the answer is in the middle of both of them.

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[abcdef]

The fifth trumpet shows Satan coming out of the abyss. Also seen in Rev 20:7.

The locusts and scorpions are false prophets, Isa 9:15.

The symbols describing them are speaking of their spirits.

They attack the children of Israel and drive them out of the gentile nations back to the land of Israel to restore Jerusalem.

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The star that falls is Satan. He "falls" because he is pushed out of heaven.

He releases himself from the abyss after he is given the power to do so by the key that is given to him.

The sun is darkened, the light of God that shines through the scriptures and the people of Israel that leads to salvation is diminished by the attacks of the false prophets by killing the people of Israel.

The air is darkened, the darkness caused by the air is all around us, between us and everything that we see. Not just the sun, but everywhere that men are, night and day.

The locusts come out of the smoke, the darkness of Satanic influence, that is, they say that Israel is not God's people, there is no God, man is God.

The power of the scorpions is the sting of sin, which leads to spiritual death, by way of these false prophets, Isa 9:15.

They cannot hurt the grass (people, Isa 40:6-7), any green thing (Israel, alive to God), or any tree (olive, fig, alive to God, holding and believing in the scriptures).

The seal of God is the Holy Spirit. These people of Israel will die first before they deny God. The false teachings that they speak cannot destroy the faith of the faithful.

The 5 months, 5 is division. They torment of Israel ends once Jerusalem is restored. The 5 months is the time of separation from the gentile nations until Jerusalem is restored. (1929-1967) Also note the 5 months of separation in the story of Noah, separating Noah from his previous world.

Men will seek death, but not find it. This is not physical death, but the death of the soul to the world when they become alive to God, Rom 6:1-11. The false teachers, the sun and air darkened, hides the pathway to salvation, through Israel and the scriptures.

Horses, formidable in battle, the spiritual battle for saving souls.

Crowns, power.

Faces of men, Isa 9:15, men, false prophets.

Breastplates of iron, hard, covering the heart, where the gospel sword must strike to convert.

The noise of the wings, faith comes by hearing, but who can hear with the noise of the chariots charging into battle.

Sting in their tails, Isa 9:15

The king is Satan. He fights against Israel and the gospel message of salvation found in the scriptures.

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[truth7t7]

17 hours ago, abcdef said:

The Bible is not silent about the time between 70 AD and 1967. 

There are no gaps in the timeline as shown by the statue of Dan. 2, which is parallel to the other timelines.

Pretrib and Preterism both ignore this time period after the great scattering.

Try to find the scriptures that describe this time period, 70 AD- 1967.

When you do, then you will understand the time lines more clearly, and understand that the answer is in the middle of both of them.

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I Strongly Disagree with your interpretation of Daniel 2 and the claim this represents a time period from 70AD to 1967

You can repeat it again and again, I Disagree

Jesus Is The Lord

Edited February 19, 2022 by truth7t7

[abcdef]

41 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

I Strongly with your interpretation of Daniel 2 and the claim this represents a time period from 70AD to 1967

You can repeat it again and again, I Disagree

Jesus Is The Lord

It's ok to disagree brother.

I am not always clear to others as to the point that I am trying to make. I try to be clear, but. 

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First the statue in Dan. 2, represents the time from Babylon until Jerusalem is restored. 586 BC until 1967

The iron of the statue represents the time that Rome rules over the people of Israel. That would be 63 BC until 1967 when Jerusalem was restored.

The time of 70 AD is not the beginning of the iron, it would fall just after the iron begins, say an inch or so.

But the time of 70 AD is significant in that the people of Israel were scattered into the gentile nations at that time. The great scattering, as shown by the angel in Dan. 12:7.

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If you have observed a different time line please feel free to come forward with it.

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[abcdef]

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The 6th trumpet has ALREADY blown.

The only way to tell if the trumpet has blown, is seeing the effects of the trumpet.

The waters (people, Rev 17:15) of the Euphrates, Iraq, have dried up and the kings of the east, Iran are crossing the Euphrates to attack restored Jerusalem. 

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The armies are pictured as false prophets just like those entities in the 5th trumpet, Rev 9:19, Isa 9:15.

Like the 5th trumpet, their souls are being described by their spiritual condition.

Enemies of Israel, their souls are empowered by Satanic teachings.

The fire and brimstone issued from their mouths is the teachings against God, Jesus, and Israel, Rev 9:17-19. 

Unlike the 5th trumpet, these false prophets are headed for restored Jerusalem.

This is happening right now.

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They will win the battle of Armageddon, and take Jerusalem.

Then the 7th trumpet will sound.

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The events that are happening right now are leading to the fall of Jerusalem.

Iran is crossing the Euphrates River and headed for Jerusalem.

Their forces are supported be Russia, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, and other Islamic countries.

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The battle described in Rev 20:7-9, is beginning now.

It will end with Jerusalem falling.

Then the fire from heaven will come.

See that this fire from heaven is the last event before the last judgment. That means that it is the last event shown that takes place on this planet.

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Just like the passage about the 10 virgins, Matt 25:1-13, many will be caught unprepared.

Notice that the virgins are not surprised by the arrival of the bridegroom, just unprepared for such a long delay.

Once the declaration is made that he is coming, the five unprepared virgins have time to ask the five prepared virgins for oil, hear their answer, and then time to go out looking for oil.

While they are looking for the Holy Spirit oil, the bridegroom comes and the door is shut.

What this means is, that people will know that Jesus is coming, it will not be a total surprise, as some say.

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Now I am telling you, Jesus is coming and will come for the kingdom exactly 3 1/2 days after Jerusalem falls, (2 witnesses Rev 11)

Wake up.

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There are many different time lines out there.

But they must all fit together.

Look closely at the Dan 2, time line.

Once Jerusalem is restored, the toes of the statue end.

Then the stone strikes.

We are in the time between the end of the toes and the stone striking.

The iron Roman domination over the people of Israel has ended.

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The stone striking is Jesus coming for the kingdom at the second resurrection. (There are only 2 resurrections, 1 Cor 15:23-24)

After the stone strikes is the judgment which is parallel to Rev 20:11-13.

Notice how the chaff being blow away and there is no place found for them in Dan 2:35, is parallel to the Rev 20:11 passage that says that heaven and earth fly away from the throne at the last judgment and that there is no place found for them.

It parallels because they are describing the same events. 

The stone striking is Jesus coming for the kingdom.

The judgment in Rev 20, is separating the wheat from the chaff in Dan 2.

When it says that the stone fills the earth, the stone becomes the new earth. When the stone "fills  the earth", it means that there is no old earth left, now there is a completely new earth as shown in Rev 21:1.

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Jesus is coming for the kingdom. He has delayed for centuries.

But now His coming is imminent.

All that is left is for Iran to attack Jerusalem and Jerusalem will fall.

Then Jesus will come.

After that, the door to salvation will be shut and the planet will be burnt by fire.

Then the judgment.

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The Revelation 20 Magog war is not 1000 years away.

It is here.

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[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, abcdef said:

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The events that are happening right now are leading to the fall of Jerusalem.

Iran is crossing the Euphrates River and headed for Jerusalem.

Their forces are supported be Russia, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, and other Islamic countries.

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The battle described in Rev 20:7-9, is beginning now.

It will end with Jerusalem falling.

Then the fire from heaven will come.

See that this fire from heaven is the last event before the last judgment. That means that it is the last event shown that takes place on this planet.

----

Just like the passage about the 10 virgins, Matt 25:1-13, many will be caught unprepared.

Notice that the virgins are not surprised by the arrival of the bridegroom, just unprepared for such a long delay.

Once the declaration is made that he is coming, the five unprepared virgins have time to ask the five prepared virgins for oil, hear their answer, and then time to go out looking for oil.

While they are looking for the Holy Spirit oil, the bridegroom comes and the door is shut.

What this means is, that people will know that Jesus is coming, it will not be a total surprise, as some say.

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Now I am telling you, Jesus is coming and will come for the kingdom exactly 3 1/2 days after Jerusalem falls, (2 witnesses Rev 11)

Wake up.

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There are many different time lines out there.

But they must all fit together.

Look closely at the Dan 2, time line.

Once Jerusalem is restored, the toes of the statue end.

Then the stone strikes.

We are in the time between the end of the toes and the stone striking.

The iron Roman domination over the people of Israel has ended.

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The stone striking is Jesus coming for the kingdom at the second resurrection. (There are only 2 resurrections, 1 Cor 15:23-24)

After the stone strikes is the judgment which is parallel to Rev 20:11-13.

Notice how the chaff being blow away and there is no place found for them in Dan 2:35, is parallel to the Rev 20:11 passage that says that heaven and earth fly away from the throne at the last judgment and that there is no place found for them.

It parallels because they are describing the same events. 

The stone striking is Jesus coming for the kingdom.

The judgment in Rev 20, is separating the wheat from the chaff in Dan 2.

When it says that the stone fills the earth, the stone becomes the new earth. When the stone "fills  the earth", it means that there is no old earth left, now there is a completely new earth as shown in Rev 21:1.

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Jesus is coming for the kingdom. He has delayed for centuries.

But now His coming is imminent.

All that is left is for Iran to attack Jerusalem and Jerusalem will fall.

Then Jesus will come.

After that, the door to salvation will be shut and the planet will be burnt by fire.

Then the judgment.

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The Revelation 20 Magog war is not 1000 years away.

It is here.

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No revelation 20:7-8 is future, the beast and false prophet have yet to be revealed

Yes they are literal human men, and will be revealed to the world, as the false prophet calls fire down from heaven before the beast, as the "World" watches

Edited February 20, 2022 by truth7t7

[WilliamL]

On 2/15/2022 at 9:12 PM, truth7t7 said:

On 2/15/2022 at 2:46 PM, WilliamL said:

Then surely you can tell us when this took place:

Ezek. 38:18 “And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord GOD, “that My fury will show in My face. 39 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: ‘Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel, 40 ‘so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.’ 41 I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains,” says the Lord GOD. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 42 And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 43 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the LORD.” ’

 

Weapons were burned and bodies were buried "long ago", a historical fulfilled

Your lack of evidence is due to there simply being zero historical evidence for your assertion. Anyone who knows the history of the Jewish people in the years following the time of Ezekiel know for a certainty that this prophecy has never been fulfilled. Never could have been fulfilled. Period. End of story.

[abcdef]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Your lack of evidence is due to there simply being zero historical evidence for your assertion. Anyone who knows the history of the Jewish people in the years following the time of Ezekiel know for a certainty that this prophecy has never been fulfilled. Never could have been fulfilled. Period. End of story.

Prove that Ezek 38-39, never took place.