Revelation 9 - Locusts reference

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

Go to the thread, "First resurrection, is it of time place or rank".

Then go page 11, to the last post on that page. At the bottom of the 2nd paragraph you will find this statement,

"We have eternal spirits as the breath of life given to us by God is eternal from the eternal".

Those are your words, it is your statement, I was just quoting you.

I think it is a great statement. A statement of truth that captures the spirit of the creation of Adam and all of us.

Shalom, abcdef.

NO! Those are NOT my words! They are the words of @Diaste! You're confusing who said what!

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

Does God have eternal breaths? Do we have eternal breaths, after the resurrection? So there is such a thing, but "eternal breaths" is symbolism.

In the world of symbolism, there are eternal breaths, but in reality no. God does not need material created air to live. He was alive long before air was created. After the resurrection we won't need air either.

God IS a Spirit - a WIND! That's what the Hebrew word "Ruwach" means! If you want to call that "eternal breaths," plural, take it up with Him.

You'd like to think that we won't need air in the Resurrection, but you have no PROOF for such a statement! To the contrary, when we are Resurrected, we will still be called "souls" or "nafshiym" = "air-breathing creatures!" (See Revelation 20:4.) You don't know WHAT we will need or what we won't need; you don't know what an "air-blasting body" is!

One thing we learn about our future selves from Paul in 1 Corinthians 15: We will GLOW! We'll SHINE, like the face of Moses! THAT much we know! We already "glow" in the infrared region of light. We give off heat, having a normal internal temperature of 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit or 37.0 degrees Celsius. Infrared cameras can see us in the dark because we glow. In the Resurrection, we will give off light in the visible spectrum. Paul put it this way:

1 Corinthians 15:39-44 (KJV)

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is ...
one kind of flesh of men,
another flesh of beasts (mostly mammals),
another of fishes, 
and another of birds. 
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory (radiance) of the celestial is one, and the glory (radiance) of the terrestrial is another. 
41 There is one glory (radiance) of the sun (magnitude of -26.74),
and another glory (radiance) of the moon (magnitude of -12.5 to -13),
and another glory (radiance) of the stars (magnitude of -4.92 and above):
for one star differeth from another star in glory (Venus has a magnitude of -4.92, Alpha Centauri has a magnitude of 0.00, and Sirius has a magnitude of 1.42).

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory (radiance):
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 
44 It is sown a natural body (sooma psuchikon = an air-breathing body);
it is raised a spiritual body (sooma pneumatikon = an air-blasting body).
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

In Daniel 12, we read:

Daniel 12:1-3 (KJV)

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 

That's not figurative speech, as far as I can tell!

Succinctly put, we will get our radiance from God Himself, but how we as resurrected bodies of flesh and bone (Luke 24:39 cf. 1 John 3:2) use that radiance is unknown. I know that we will have access to the Tree of Life which bears 12 different kinds of fruit each month, and Yeshua` ate food after His Resurrection, and we will be like Him. I like to think that we will process ALL the food we digest leaving nothing to waste, but let's be honest. That is speculation, and we just don't know everything about the Resurrection, yet.

 

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

The soul is more than just a body. It has a mind, heart, and strength, Mk 12:30. They separate at death and the body is left behind.

And, THIS is where we differ the most! What you said here is the THEORY, but it is not substantiated from Scripture! That is a GREEK mythological belief! People want to believe that theory because they can't accept the idea that there's no continuity of life after one dies. Instead, he or she "sleeps" in the ground, no longer an "air-breathing creature," no longer a "soul," and must await the Resurrection! Why do you think the Resurrection is so important in the Bible?! We die! HOWEVER, in the Messiah (in Christ), we merely "sleep" awaiting that "Great Gettin' Up Morning!"

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

We are still living, with mind, heart, and strength, but we don't need material air to breath any longer. It is symbolism, so that people through all ages could understand the word of God.

In one understanding of the term "breath of life", yes.

"Still living" WHERE?! There's NO Scripture that says we are "going to Heaven" when we die! In fact, the words for "heaven" in the Scriptures, "shaamayim, in the TANAKH (the OT) and "ouranos" in the B'rit Chadashah (the NT), are speaking of the atmosphere where the clouds and the birds are! Sometimes, the words "celestial" and "heavenly" can mean more, but one must be careful here! In some places, "celestial" and "heavenly" come from the Greek word "epouranios," which means "of or belonging to above-the-sky," but in other places, "heavenly" comes from the Greek word "ouranios," which means "of or belonging to the sky!" "Ouranios" is an adjective related to the "sky" - the "atmosphere" where the clouds are and the birds fly. "Epouranios" is an adjective related to "above the sky" - where the sun, moon, and stars exist!

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

Adam was a "son of God", Lk 3:38. How was Adam God's son?

Adam was God's son because God's "breath of life" is more than just material air.

In order to be God's "son", part of God had to be put into the creation process. That is, unless part of God Himself was put into Adam, then Adam would not be God's son.

Nope. Sorry, but that's just nonsense. To be a "father" is to be a "SOURCE" of an individual! The name "Abigail," for instance, is a Hebrew name that literally means "Father of joy." However, we usually say that the name means "SOURCE of joy," because that's how we use the name when naming a daughter "Abigail."

God was the SOURCE of Adam, because God MADE Adam! Adam became the father of Shet ("Seth") because he was the SOURCE of Shet! His DNA mixed with Chavah's (Eve's) DNA MADE Shet!

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

The "breath of life" that God breathed into Adam is showing part of God entering into the body that God had prepared. The parts of the soul, that Adam did not have in his material body, his mind, his heart, and his strength, all came from God in His breath to make a complete human soul.

NO! This is a MISUNDERSTANDING of the word "soul!"

Genesis 2:7 is a TRANSLATION of the Hebrew of B-ree'shiyt 2:7:

Genesis 2:7 in English says,

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 

בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית B-ree'shiyt 2:7 in Hebrew says,

וַיִּיצֶר֩ יְהוָ֨ה אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֗ם עָפָר֙ מִן־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה וַיִּפַּ֥ח בְּאַפָּ֖יו נִשְׁמַ֣ת חַיִּ֑ים וַֽיְהִ֥י הָֽאָדָ֖ם לְנֶ֥פֶשׁ חַיָּֽה׃

An English transliteration of this verse is...

7 Vayyiytser YHWH Elohiym et-haa'aadaam `aafaar min-haa'adaamaah vayyipach b'apaayow nishmat chayyiym vayhiy haa'aadaam l-nefesh chayyaah:

A word-for-word translation would be...

7 And-formed YHWH God [d.o.] the-red-[man] of-dust from-the-red-[ground] and-puffed in-his-nostrils a-puff of-living-things and-became the-red-[man] into-an-air-breathing-creature living:

When one looks up "soul" in the Dictionary of the Hebrew and Chaldee Languages of Strong's Concordance, one will find:

5315 נֶפֶשׁ nefesh [nephesh] (neh'-fesh). From # naafash [naphash]; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)
-- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

(I add the word "air-" to this because, what else is he going to breathe?)

This comes from the root word...

5314 נָפַשׁ naafash [nafash] (naw-fash'). A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air)
-- (be) refresh selves (-ed).

This isn't information ADDED to the English text! It's information about the SOURCE of the English text! The English wording DEPENDS upon the Hebrew!

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

Human souls are in God's image, but it is the spiritual image, not the physical image. God should not be thought of as in the image of man, man is in the image of God's spirit. 

You don't know that! You CAN'T know that! Nothing in the text gives this information! All we know is that Adam (haa'Aadaam = "the red [man]") was made physically, and God said He made Him in the "image of God." Anything more than this is CONJECTURE and ASSUMPTIONS!

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

Our minds, hearts, and strengths are eternal. When we die physically those things separate from the body. They do not cease to exist, they are just in another form.

Like butterflies.

Still hanging onto that Greek philosophy, I see. Sorry, but there's STILL no Scriptural support for this theory!

 

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

We are eternal now. It is a matter of being with God or being cast away from the presence of God, for eternity, basically.

No, that's not true. One is not ETERNAL until God resurrects an individual who died in Christ to new life or resurrects an individual who rejected His Son, is judged at the Great White Throne Judgment, and is thrown into the Lake of Fire!

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

Eternally breathing? Yes, in symbolic terms.

No, in material air terms. This world is passing away, 1 John 2:15-17, Gen 8:22.

--

Not so! The Earth abides FOREVER!

Ecclesiastes 1:4 (KJV)

4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Isaiah 60:19-22 (KJV)

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

Psalm 89:20-37 (KJV)

20 "I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, 'Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation!'
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven." Selah.

Exodus 31:12-17 (KJV)

12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 

13 "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, 'Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.'"

Isaiah 66:22-23 (KJV)

22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me," saith the LORD.

Isaiah 24:19-23 (KJV)

19 The earth (land) is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. (earthquake)
20 The earth (land) shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Ezekiel 39:21-29 (KJV)

21 "And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward. 23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them."

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; "Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; 26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations; 28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. 29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel," saith the Lord GOD.

-o-

And, regarding the Resurrection, we also read:

Job 19:23-27 (KJV)

23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

That's enough for now....

 

[Retrobyter]

On 4/13/2022 at 1:21 PM, abcdef said:

I only asked who the angel of the abyss and the king of the locusts is.

You have already stated that he is a male locust.

 What is an angel? Why is this bug an angel?

Shalom, abcdef.

An angel is a messenger (Greek: aggelos = "messenger"). The word "aggelos" was transliterated and anglicized to "angel," because the Greek consonant blend of "gg" is the "ng" sound in English. This bug is an "angel" or "MESSENGER" because of whom it attacks! As the leader of the swarm, it would be a clear message to the one who had received the mark of the beast that God had sent them against that person!

[abcdef]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:04 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, abcdef.

NO! Those are NOT my words! They are the words of @Diaste! You're confusing who said what!

Wow, you are right! What a stupid mistake on my part.

I apologize and I am sorry for the mix up.

 I must have read that post 20 times to get words right, but some how I didn't get the author right.

This is absolute proof that I am not perfect.

Sorry.

------

I must also apologize to Diaste for giving RB the credit for his statement, "We have eternal spirits as the breath of life given to us by God is eternal from the eternal".

A great statement by Diaste, worthy of thought.

 

[abcdef]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:04 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, abcdef.

"Still living" WHERE?! There's NO Scripture that says we are "going to Heaven" when we die!

Lk 23:43, " ... Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Jesus didn't "lose consciousness" when He died, neither did the thief.

Both went to paradise on the day that they died.

--

Jn 11:26, "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believeth thou this?"

Do you believe it?

Christians die physically, but not spiritually. Their mind, heart, and strength continues to be conscious.

They change, but do not cease to be.

---

 

 

 

 

[abcdef]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:04 AM, Retrobyter said:

Not so! The Earth abides FOREVER!

Gen 8:22, "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease."

When it says, "While the earth remaineth," it indicates that there will be a time when the earth will not remain and the things mentioned will cease.

---

This heaven and earth "fly away" at the last judgment, Rev 20:11, " ..., and there was found no place for them."  

This created material planet and universe will fly away into the great dark void of "space". Then there will be the new earth and heavens after the judgment.

This is when all those things, day and night etc., cease for those in front of the throne.

 

 

[abcdef]

On 4/15/2022 at 3:46 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, abcdef.

An angel is a messenger (Greek: aggelos = "messenger"). The word "aggelos" was transliterated and anglicized to "angel," because the Greek consonant blend of "gg" is the "ng" sound in English.

 

On 4/15/2022 at 3:46 PM, Retrobyter said:

This bug is an "angel" or "MESSENGER" because of whom it attacks!

Yes. Aren't all the locusts messengers of the same message?

What if a person becomes a Christian? Will the bugs stop bugging him?

 

On 4/15/2022 at 3:46 PM, Retrobyter said:

As the leader of the swarm, it would be a clear message

Yes, to some maybe it would be clear. What will the message be to the children of Israel?

 

On 4/15/2022 at 3:46 PM, Retrobyter said:

to the one who had received the mark of the beast that God had sent them against that person!

Ok, but they sting, "... ; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

What is the "seal of God in their foreheads"? The gift of the Holy Spirit? Acts 2:38?

Who has the seal and who does not?

-- 

All believing Israel are sealed in the Holy Spirit. We receive the gift of the eternal Holy Spirit at baptism, Acts 2:38.

The Holy Spirit dwells in us, Rom 8:9-11. If the Holy Spirit, dwells in us, and is eternal because God is eternal, then we cannot die (cease to be, after physical death), because the eternal Spirit of God dwells in us, is part of us, and God is eternal. He does not die, that is, lose consciousness or cease to be.

--

Those who do not have the seal are unbelieving Israel primarily, and gentiles.

--

If only the angel of the abyss could talk. Then his message would be clearer. What do you think that he would say if he could talk?

Would he say, "Believe, repent, be baptized, and remain faithful unto death and Jesus will give you a crown of life" ? No, that would be preaching the gospel kingdom message and he is from the abyss.

What would he say then? Being from the abyss, wouldn't he be trying to hide the gospel of salvation kingdom message? To keep people from finding salvation?  Hiding the way to salvation?

-

[abcdef]

On 4/15/2022 at 3:46 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, abcdef.

An angel is a messenger (Greek: aggelos = "messenger"). The word "aggelos" was transliterated and anglicized to "angel," because the Greek consonant blend of "gg" is the "ng" sound in English. This bug is an "angel" or "MESSENGER" because of whom it attacks! As the leader of the swarm, it would be a clear message to the one who had received the mark of the beast that God had sent them against that person!

Rev 11:7, Who is the beast that ascends out of the abyss, that kills the 2 witnesses? A locust?

[nobody]

 When the other planet is destroyed from the other solar system it will head east towards Earth. Just as the locust follow the east wind when Moses called them same here. Only because their place was destroyed and out that smoke they will be here. They are only one more set of trumpet, vial, and seal before the end after this.