Who is Israel? And what is God's plan for the Jewish people?

[BibleGuy]

2 hours ago, Golds and Blues said:

I believe your missing the historic context of the babylonian exile of yhdh and the levites spoken of by yeshayahu/isaiah.

Are you familiar with the history of these 2 particular tribes alignment and transgression? If so from there the cyclical proposition would be equally important.

"cyclical proposition" ???
Meaning what?

 

[BibleGuy]

4 hours ago, Golds and Blues said:

From the prophet yeshayahu/Isaiah. 

Please explain in summary what transgression the tribes of yhdh and levi were punished for committing. Answer this and a clarifying view will proceed in further conversation concerning the plan for Israel.

Before the exile what had these 2 tribes done wrong according to Devarim/deut 30.?

 

I'm still stuck on "cyclical"...

What exactly does "cyclical" have to do with "the prophet yeshayahu/Isaiah" ?

 

[BibleGuy]

15 minutes ago, Golds and Blues said:

After the return from exile in babylon. What recurring transgressions did the tribes of yhdh and levi commit during the advent of Yeshua? 

 

 

adjective

1. occurring in cycles; recurrent.

    

    

Not really sure what you've got in mind....

 

Can you tell me?

 

[BibleGuy]

12 hours ago, Golds and Blues said:

Mitzvah are be counted by rav Rosends and others.

Keen eyes youngin

Thinking Maimonides counted wrong.

For example, he excluded Dt. 4:15, right?

 

[BibleGuy]

8 hours ago, Golds and Blues said:

Are you touching the talmud?

No.

 

[JohnD]

This is a controversial topic; fueled by pride and prejudice

• Jewish pride
• Gentile prejudice

Who / what is Israel?

Israel (Yisra'el = yish sarar elohiym) is the prince of God.

First given to Jacob, then the children of Jacob. Then the people of Jacob. Then the nation of Jacob.

Jacob being the spiritual heir of Abraham and Isaac. Esau was the physical heir (firstborn heir).

Note that Esau actually received the worldly inheritance he seemed to be cheated out of after all.

Which was all he cared about.

Point being, there was a division between the fleshly and the spiritual begun even then.

The Apostle Paul made a curious statement here:

Romans 9:1–6 (AV)
1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Huh???

This makes no sense whatsoever... unless... it pertains to a division within Israel between the fleshly and the spiritual.

For they are not all Spirit Israel who are Physical Israel.

This is the only way to make sense of the statement.

Staying focused on just the House of Israel:

• all are Physical Israel (born Israel)
• but not all are Spirit Israel

All are born to the election / chosen by YHVH. But not all choose YHVH.

Note that Israel (the elect chosen of this world) was by the one sided covenant between YHVH and Abraham (who was incapacitated while the covenant was cut) Genesis 15... meaning the covenant was and is unconditional on the part of Abraham. The Jewish people (Physical Israel) are God's people, chosen / elect in this world / this life by birth. Period.

This entitles them alone to inheritance in the Holy Land etc. whether in belief or unbelief.

But that is only for this life. Eternity is another matter entirely.

The Abraham covenant has two sets of heirs for the father of faith:

• heirs as numerous as the sand by the sea (physical)
• heirs as numerous as the stars of heaven (spiritual)

The father of many nations.

• the one nation Israel through physical heitage
• the rest of the nations of earth through spiritual heritage

 

 

[JohnD]

Jeremiah 31:31–34 (AV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This is one of the most revealing predictive prophecies of the Bible written by the prophet to the nations (gentiles).

Making no mention of gentiles. It can be taken as either exclusion or inclusion.

The Northern Kingdom Israel did split from Judah. Both were exiled at different times in different places and both essentially returned to the Holy Land.

• Judea
• Samaria

Samaritans were looked down upon by Jews as half breeds / corrupted seed of the gentiles.

The dividing line between Jew and Gentile being eliminated in Christ:

Galatians 3:24–28 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14–22 (AV)
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Which Jeremiah 31:31 calls the house of Israel house of Judah.

Romans 11:7–23 (AV)
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

The Christian faith is supposed to be from the Hebrew Root of Israel, not a revamping of faith in YHVH / new religion but the next step in the religion God himself created / commissioned New Covenant Judaism / the Spirit House of Israel.

Not like the Old Covenant (Jeremiah 31:32) but the total forgiveness of sins (Jeremiah 31:34) by the one sacrifice of the Servant of YHVH (Isaiah 53:10 / Daniel 9:25-26). 

Freeing us from the Law of Moses (Galatians 3:24-25) and making us the chosen elect citizens of New Jerusalem from heaven:

Galatians 4:21–31 (AV)
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Note my location on my Worthy Christian Forums icon is the Spiritual House of Israel (where all believers in Yeshua the Jewish Messiah the ultimate Prince of God [Yisra'el] are).

Edited May 23, 2022 by JohnD