The dead in the graves and all but the alive and remaining killed, WHO DO WE RULE AND REIGN OVER?

[DeighAnn]

17 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

D, some of the questions you ask me are things I have already answered.  I'm sorry we don't agree on many things.  In Luke 23, for example, and if you read it in context, you may understand that the rich man wasn't literally in hell; he was suffering and tormented because he could see what was on the other side of the gulf where Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham.  

did God use the wrong word?

[DeighAnn]

17 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

D, some of the questions you ask me are things I have already answered.  I'm sorry we don't agree on many things.  In Luke 23, for example, and if you read it in context, you may understand that the rich man wasn't literally in hell; he was suffering and tormented because he could see what was on the other side of the gulf where Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham.  

I will go back and find them.  Then I will post them.  If you will tell me which ones you answered, I will then go look through the thread to find your answers.  Would this be ok with you?

[DeighAnn]

21 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hello s.D.

When Jesus narrate this he had not died yet and narrated what happened to the beggar and the wealthy man. 

Jesus did not say that to set a standard that what is happening to the poor and to the rich, no he did not.

Jesus also did not directly included the rest of the world but indirectly he did we will see how.

In this narrative Jesus wants to show that not all the Israelites are gathered to their Patriarch Abraham, to their Father Abraham. 

That some of them they will be gather in his Bossom and be under Abraham's domain after their death while others at death they will be in another place away from the jurisdiction of Abraham. 

While all their bodies are decaying on earth. 

We can not say that for all because some are burned and there are other situations. 

Jesus described what happened to Abraham and his descendants the Israelites including Issac and Jacob. 

The number one point is that Abraham was not in Heaven and by DEFAULT and non of his descendants for that matter was.

Again Jesus described how the world was before he died and raised from the dead.

All this has changed, since the resurrection of Jesus Christ.  

Jesus described the world of the dead that was and not is anymore, or stopped being after his death and resurrection. 

First about Abraham and all the people of the Lord their God who were with him, the people of God were there because they did not have the Life and the Spirit of God's Christ. 

 

Yes, they were in heaven GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING AND NOT THE DEAD. 

[Your closest friendnt]

16 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hello s.D.

When Jesus narrate this he had not died yet and narrated what happened to the beggar and the wealthy man. 

Jesus did not say that to set a standard that what is happening to the poor and to the rich, no he did not.

Jesus also did not directly included the rest of the world but indirectly he did we will see how.

In this narrative Jesus wants to show that not all the Israelites are gathered to their Patriarch Abraham, to their Father Abraham. 

That some of them they will be gather in his Bossom and be under Abraham's domain after their death while others at death they will be in another place away from the jurisdiction of Abraham. 

While all their bodies are decaying on earth. 

We can not say that for all because some are burned and there are other situations. 

Jesus described what happened to Abraham and his descendants the Israelites including Issac and Jacob. 

The number one point is that Abraham was not in Heaven and by DEFAULT and non of his descendants for that matter was.

Again Jesus described how the world was before he died and raised from the dead.

All this has changed, since the resurrection of Jesus Christ.  

Jesus described the world of the dead that was and not is anymore, or stopped being after his death and resurrection. 

First about Abraham and all the people of the Lord their God who were with him, the people of God were there because they did not have the Life and the Spirit of God's Christ. 

 

Next we need to understand what happened to both people the rich and the poor Lasarus both of them being Israelites who at death ended up in two different places.

We should start with the poor Lasarus because he represents the seed of Abraham the Israelites who at death they were judged to be gathered to him and what happened to the rich Lasarus who represents the Israelites who at death they were judged not to be gathered to him but to another place away from the Jurisdiction of Abraham. 

Abraham and his descendants the Israelites who gathered to him were the righteous people of God according to the Law of Moses. 

They were alive to the Lord their God because of the righteousness through the Law. Before the Law they had the righteousness of Abraham through the Circumcision. 

Jesus Christ at his death he went to Abraham, as we know that Jesus said that Abraham knew about this day and he had rejoiced to know about this day when Jesus Christ after his death on the Cross he will descend first to him and the people who were with Abraham to give them forgiveness of their Sins in his blood and by DEFAULT Jesus Christ righteousness and by DEFAULT of his Life of his Life Giving Spirit. 

Those people as the were at that time down there they were now the children of the Heavenly Father in Jesus Christ name. 

Their having now a Heavenly Inheritance with the Heavenly Father,  they are born to the Heavenly Father. 

They are his children as much as Jesus Christ is. 

If one can measure this one, they can figure what happened to them if they are allowed to remained down there without Jesus Christ and without Abraham who at that time had Joint JESUS CHRIST. 

The other Lasarus was where he was not because he had to refused to believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his sins because Jesus Christ had not died yet and forgiveness for sins in his blood had not been preached yet.

Now will he believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his Sins? 

The only way for him to believe in Jesus Christ is that the Gospel had to be preached to him after his death right where he was. 

And that what Jesus Christ did after his death he went to all the people who had died before him and preached the forgiveness of sins in his blood. 

That was one of Jesus Christ mission those three days he spent in the place of the dead. 

The rich Lasarus where ever he was he better had to believe in Jesus Christ because after the resurrection of Jesus Christ he will be Judged according to his faith in Jesus Christ. 

Right where he is and if at the time and at the resurrection of Jesus if he is found with the denial of believing in Jesus Christ he will be taken to the place called Hell. And that time he will know that he is there because he denied to believe in Him. The same will happen to the rest of the world.

Jesus preached forgiveness of Sins in his blood to all of them. 

Would they  believe?

To every one who believe  had the forgiveness of is sins in the blood of Jesus he was ordained forgiveness and he was sealed with the Spirit of  Jesus Christ. 

 

[DeighAnn]

17 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Next we need to understand what happened to both people the rich and the poor Lasarus both of them being Israelites who at death ended up in two different places.

We should start with the poor Lasarus because he represents the seed of Abraham the Israelites who at death they were judged to be gathered to him and what happened to the rich Lasarus who represents the Israelites who at death they were judged not to be gathered to him but to another place away from the Jurisdiction of Abraham. 

Abraham and his descendants the Israelites who gathered to him were the righteous people of God according to the Law of Moses. 

They were alive to the Lord their God because of the righteousness through the Law. Before the Law they had the righteousness of Abraham through the Circumcision. 

Jesus Christ at his death he went to Abraham, as we know that Jesus said that Abraham knew about this day and he had rejoiced to know about this day when Jesus Christ after his death on the Cross he will descend first to him and the people who were with Abraham to give them forgiveness of their Sins in his blood and by DEFAULT Jesus Christ righteousness and by DEFAULT of his Life of his Life Giving Spirit. 

Those people as the were at that time down there they were now the children of the Heavenly Father in Jesus Christ name. 

Their having now a Heavenly Inheritance with the Heavenly Father,  they are born to the Heavenly Father. 

They are his children as much as Jesus Christ is. 

If one can measure this one, they can figure what happened to them if they are allowed to remained down there without Jesus Christ and without Abraham who at that time had Joint JESUS CHRIST. 

The other Lasarus was where he was not because he had to refused to believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his sins because Jesus Christ had not died yet and forgiveness for sins in his blood had not been preached yet.

Now will he believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his Sins? 

The only way for him to believe in Jesus Christ is that the Gospel had to be preached to him after his death right where he was. 

And that what Jesus Christ did after his death he went to all the people who had died before him and preached the forgiveness of sins in his blood. 

That was one of Jesus Christ mission those three days he spent in the place of the dead. 

The rich Lasarus where ever he was he better had to believe in Jesus Christ because after the resurrection of Jesus Christ he will be Judged according to his faith in Jesus Christ. 

Right where he is and if at the time and at the resurrection of Jesus if he is found with the denial of believing in Jesus Christ he will be taken to the place called Hell. And that time he will know that he is there because he denied to believe in Him. The same will happen to the rest of the world.

Jesus preached forgiveness of Sins in his blood to all of them. 

Would they  believe?

To every one who believe  had the forgiveness of is sins in the blood of Jesus he was ordained forgiveness and he was sealed with the Spirit of  Jesus Christ. 

 

Thank you YCF.  Who will we reign and rule over during the millennium?

[Your closest friendnt]

48 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Thank you YCF.  Who will we reign and rule over during the millennium?

Hi s.D, we rein and we rule right now as we going on with our lives...

It is somehow in the same way Joshua had to reign and ruled over to what was coming to him, things that he did not invite and he did not joint in or side with them or remained silent or secretly fleet with them but he said:

"AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE WE WILL SERVE THE LORD"

There is more one more situation where I see you as ruling and reigning over it and you have stand firm and you stand firm against the tide that came against in you and you reign over it because it did not let it to take you away and you did not joint it.

And this has happened more than once. 

And I have seen you as a conquer where you have understand something and as a result you change your mind about something, even things related to what and how we believe. 

This is my millennium, this is my opportunity to reign and ruled above many things while I am still in this life and one of them and is a very big one, to big for some people that they are subdued  and overcome by it.

And this one is BITTERNESS. 

 

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hi s.D, we rein and we rule right now as we going on with our lives...

It is somehow in the same way Joshua had to reign and ruled over to what was coming to him, things that he did not invite and he did not joint in or side with them or remained silent or secretly fleet with them but he said:

"AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE WE WILL SERVE THE LORD"

There is more one more situation where I see you as ruling and reigning over it and you have stand firm and you stand firm against the tide that came against in you and you reign over it because it did not let it to take you away and you did not joint it.

And this has happened more than once. 

And I have seen you as a conquer where you have understand something and as a result you change your mind about something, even things related to what and how we believe. 

This is my millennium, this is my opportunity to reign and ruled above many things while I am still in this life and one of them and is a very big one, to big for some people that they are subdued  and overcome by it.

And this one is BITTERNESS. 

 

Yes we do.  I am very aware of the POWER we are given through the Holy Spirit and understand that AS Christians we rule and reign in our own lives right now but have you tried to do that in someone elses lately?   They are having none of it.  So we do as much as we can right now in our own, but this life doesn't even bear a resemblance to what is coming in the Lords Day.  WE will be going through the birth of a NEW TIME.  Our existence will be completely different.  The UNSEEN heavenly world will become the seen world.  The 'elements' will have been burned up.  All will be in spiritual bodies.  
If you think we are ruling and reigning over the whole earth right now you are in for a really BIG and PLEASANT surprise.  There is almost nothing of this world that is of God.  "YEA though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death".  Make no mistake where we are living.  There aren't going to be any evil shenanigans' going in the dark when Christ returns.  

I took the long way, I learned the words of God THE WAY THE WORDS OF GOD TOLD ME TO LEARN THEM.  When you submit yourself to doing it HIS WAY and let HIM lead, His plan is laid out as HE wants it to be.  It settles in your psyche as HE dictates.  How can anyone who hasn't done that stand a chance against anyone God has given His truth to His way?  There is no coming against His truth.  Everything else fails.  I went from a life with home husband job friends pets toys to all alone on a mountain with the words of God for a couple of years. Morning to night like a junkie.  Weeks would go by and then my phone would ring and I would wonder why do people keep calling me all the time, why won't they just leave me alone for a minute.  They really just wanted to be sure I wasn't dead and to feed me.  

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

 

Psalm 119:97 O how I love thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

Psalm 119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.

Psalm 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

Psalm 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

Psalm 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.

Psalm 119:102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.

Psalm 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

Psalm 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Psalm 119:106 I have sworn, and I will perform it, that I will keep thy righteous judgments.

Psalm 119:107 I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O LORD, according unto thy word.

Psalm 119:108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

Psalm 119:109 My soul is continually in my hand: yet do I not forget thy law.

Psalm 119:110 The wicked have laid a snare for me: yet I erred not from thy precepts.

How long have you been at this?  Teach, preach or just plain love it with all that you are?  I know its one of them.... 

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

But do you find it POSSIBLE that those addressed  as 'survivors' are those who are DEAD IN CHRIST (because they have never been saved) who 'rise' having experienced their first death?   IF 'survivors' don't have a FIRST death, how can they have a 2nd, logically speaking.  

The dead in Christ are those who are born again and have died a physical death before the return of Jesus.

" 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

Says here the living are caught up together with them [the dead in Christ] to meet the Lord.

The dead in Christ are IN Christ. How can they be unsaved? If you are IN Christ you are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise. 

Are you assuming the survivors are immortal? 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

23 minutes ago, Diaste said:

The dead in Christ are those who are born again and have died a physical death before the return of Jesus.

" 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

Says here the living are caught up together with them [the dead in Christ] to meet the Lord.

The dead in Christ are IN Christ. How can they be unsaved? If you are IN Christ you are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise. 

Are you assuming the survivors are immortal? 

 

 

How can some one who NEVER DIES be amongst the dead? Either you believe you never die or you don't.  You don't get to believe you never die and then place yourself amongst the dead. 

God says it better  

Luke 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

Luke 24:5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

I know I keep giving you the SAME verse,  but you haven't seen it yet.  It is like one of those pictures with all of the dots that you have to stare at for a long time and look through and then the picture pops out all 3D.  Once you have seen the truth in all those dots it never can be taken away.  Gods Truth is like that.  You have to meditate on it and let GODS WORDS overcome your own thoughts and ideas.  Just LISTEN TO what Christ is really saying here
 

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Martha, just like you RIGHT NOW believes in a 'last day' resurrection.  SHE IS OT.  They are 'waiting' for the day when the dead rise.  They are expecting one thing and they are getting another.  They don't 'see' what was written in the Scriptures.  Shortly that 'last day' is STILL going to come to pass, NOT LIKE IT WOULD HAVE if the King and the Kingdom had been accepted, but those 'sheep' who are dead in the grave (THEY ARE DEAD IN THE GRAVE because they died UNDER THE LAW and the Law couldn't render forgiveness.  BUT in a couple of days, they will fall under the new 'law' the Blood of the Lamb slain and their sin which 'binds them to death', will be forgiven and they will be washed clean and they shall rise, called 'and He led the captivity captive'.  AND WE KNOW they rise in bodies because SOME OF THEM will be seen walking around.  But NOT ALL who are in the graves will rise.  ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE what Jesus preaches to them.  The rest will have to wait until He returns for the Millennium when some of them will rise, but not all of them will rise because some will only rise for Judgment) 

Once Jesus is resurrected the now washed clean, saved,  sheep rise
When Jesus returns the 'just and unjust' 'don't know if they are saved' rise
End of the Lords Day the DEAD UNSAVED are delivered from Hell and the sea..


JESUS DOESN'T SAY YES MARTHA YOU ARE CORRECT, He says

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:

he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live
(those in the graves who hear His voice, and the graves opened, and He led the captivity captive, what is it that He descended...)

THE END OF THE OLD COVENANT.  THE END OF THOSE WHO DIED UNDER THE LAW.

NOW HE SPEAKS TO THE NEW COVENANT.  The under GRACE.  
Now He is addressing us.  From that point on WHOSOEVER, while they are alive, before those who are born die, if they come to FAITH, if they are saved. 

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die.

Believest thou this?

NEVER DIE.  Since they 'never die' they

CAN'T BE dead.    NOT in Christ NOT out of Christ, NOT in the grave NOT out of the grave, they can't be dead anywhere, at any time,  forever.  

They never die.

Except as in Adam, meaning the earthen vessel must go back to dust.  The silver cord must part.

But what do we know about the EXCHANGE?  The resurrection of the dead

It goes down one way, comes up another.  The soul/spirit has two bodies.  We are never told we have two spirits. Don't have two souls.  Just two bodies.  One that has to die another that has to rise.  

 

THE DEAD rise first - doesn't say they become a part of the ALIVE and REMAINING, doesn't say they are gathered together, doesn't say they are caught up, their story ends at 'rise' (for now)

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, 

The alive and remaining ARE SEPARATE from the dead that rise,  even then.  

If you don't see it, no problem. Took me awhile.  Just pray God give you HIS TRUTH and His truth only.  One thing we know of His truth, once you hear it, it doesn't go away.  Doesn't matter if you believe it or not,  it remains  in the back of your head,  doing that poke thing it does.  Then again, could just be how it works for me.  IDK.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

The dead in Christ are IN Christ. How can they be unsaved?

He is the Lord of the living and the dead. 

He is different than GOD, who is NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD, but the GOD of the living. 

Remember, all who go into the grave HAVEN'T had the opportunity to CHOSE yet.  They have never heard.  They never received Gods Truth.  They never had a chance.  They were raised in some other religion.  They were deceived by false doctrines. They lived before the word had spread to their part of the world.  They had mental or physical problems that prevented the truth for reaching their soul/spirit.  

Again, they are dead in Christ as He is the Lord of the living and the dead.  They rise at the beginning of the Millennium and they rise from the dust and so they rise in an 'imperishable' body but not an immortal one.  (neither doth corruption inherit incorruption)  We rule and reign over them for the 1000 years.  Out of this group will be those who's names will be written in the book of life, their resurrection from the dead is found to be the resurrection of the just.  Then their are those who will, just like souls today, chose the ways of Satan above the ways of God, and their resurrection will be found to be one of the unjust.  We won't know until then.  



Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I am serious when I tell you this one sentence says two completely different things each as true as the other.  

The rest of the dead 'those who made the choice and chose death and not life' they don't even rise up till the end of the 1000 years.

The rest of the dead 'those who were of the just and unjust resurrection' don't receive GODS GIVE of ETERNAL LIFE, IMMORTALITY.  

JUST AS JESUS ADDRESSED the OT in one verse and then the NT in the next verse with Martha, the same pattern is shown here (actually shown a lot of places once you learn to see the picture in the dots)
 

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

THESE are the "and the dead in Christ shall rise first", the resurrection of the just and the unjust"  AND we will find out who's name is in the book of life and whos' isn't.  (and the 'dead' lived not aka didn't receive the immortality)



(and rest - the dead lived not - didn't even rise in the resurrection of the just and the unjust)

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Think any of them were found in the book of life?  Me neither.