Why were the SACRIFICES NECESSARY BEFORE ... Will they be re-instituted again ... and if so WHY?

[George]

And where is the 2nd passage to confirm he is bound for 1000 years?  I'm curious if there is a 2nd reference to such a binding?

[Steve_S]

2 minutes ago, Alive said:

Rev. 20:2 (NAS20S) And he took hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

The Lord is doing great works bringing in a harvest in these places like China and Iran.

The Gospel is victorious. I like Heiser's translation that reads "and the gates of hell cannot 'withstand' the Church". Gates are a defensive mechanism, so it fits.

The Great Commission is an ongoing reality.

As I have said here a few times, I am more and more convinced of the early penning of Rev. If that is so, then much is looked at differently.

In the final analysis, God is sovereign and the enemy has no more power than he is allowed. He is nothing but a created being who rebelled--he is weak and sin. He is weak in that he is limited by his maker--our God. He cannot touch a son of God unless given permission and that will only result in a Rom. 8:28 reality.

So, whether Rev 20.2 is applicable or not (which I think is)--he is bound.

So, just to be clear, you believe Revelation was written prior to when, 70 AD?

Also, just a follow up, since you quoted Revelation 20:2. We should look at the entire passage.

 

Rev 20:1  Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 
Rev 20:2  He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 
Rev 20:3  and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. 
Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

Has this all occurred?

[Alive]

One of the things that has repeatedly made me sick is how so many glorify the enemy in various ways on the forum. The Lord is God and the Church is His Body and empowered by Him. Think about it. From talking about human-animal hybrids to satanic research and by long term members.

It is shameful.

Satan is bound by his own nature and severely limited by our God.

If folks don't see that then I can't help. He is bound precisely as our God desires.

Frankly, I care little about the eschatology, as I have said many times. That space is a mess by any estimation.

:-)

Christ's Church is not weak!

[Alive]

8 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

So, just to be clear, you believe Revelation was written prior to when, 70 AD?

Also, just a follow up, since you quoted Revelation 20:2. We should look at the entire passage.

 

Rev 20:1  Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 
Rev 20:2  He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 
Rev 20:3  and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. 
Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

Has this all occurred?

As I said, I am leaning toward an early writing and that before 70AD. There is much scholarly evidence to indicate this, both internal and external evidence.

I suggest a reading of Gentry's 'Before the Fall of Jerusalem' with Bible open. You may not agree with his conclusion, but I guarantee you will learn much and re-evaluate some things.

[Selah7]

4 minutes ago, Alive said:

As I said, I am leaning toward an early writing and that before 70AD.

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

- Malachi 4:5 (KJV)

This is a fantastic prophetic passage of Scripture.  It’s saying that God will send Elijah the prophet to us in this final generation, to those of us who are alive before the 7th  trump sounds!  How do we know?  Because it says before the great and dreadful day of the LORD!  This day marks the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the beginning of the Millennium!  

in Christ, Selah

[George]

18 minutes ago, Alive said:

As I said, I am leaning toward an early writing and that before 70AD. There is much scholarly evidence to indicate this, both internal and external evidence.

Rev 1:9  I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 

That's impossible ... because it was Emperor Domitian who threw John into a caldron of boiling oil in front of an audience at the Colosseum.  By the way, many in the crowd came to faith seeing the miracle Tertullian wrote. 

Anyway Emperor Domitian didn't even come power until 81 AD.  He was emperor from 81-96 AD. And John wrote from the Isle of Patmos.

So if REVELATION IS NOT WRITTEN BEFORE 70 AD ... then basically your entire position is debunked?  Is this an accurate statement?

[Alive]

8 minutes ago, George said:

Rev 1:9  I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 

That's impossible ... because it was Emperor Domitian who threw John into a caldron of boiling oil in front of an audience at the Colosseum.  By the way, many in the crowd came to faith seeing the miracle Tertullian wrote. 

Anyway Emperor Domitian didn't even come power until 81 AD.  He was emperor from 81-96 AD. And John wrote from the Isle of Patmos.

So if REVELATION IS NOT WRITTEN BEFORE 70 AD ... then basically your entire position is debunked?  Is this an accurate statement?

No George. Just for giggles. Read Gentry's book. Thank me afterwards.

He is a good brother just like you and I--respect that.

He does a very honest job of laying out the evidence from a myriad of sources.

Two years or so back I decided to read material from all positions from Salus (3 of his) to Sproule and Gentry and Kiddlebarger.

It is good to see various perspectives that exist in the church.

I am not dogmatic about it--not at all--but the argument and evidence is compelling.

I think I am blessed in that I have never been married to any position....that makes me able to look with relatively clear eyes. No skin in the game, so to speak.

I repeat. Not all can be correct, but all can certainly be wrong. Eschatology is a messy space and have have labored much on the forum to convince brethren to respect that and each other. There is far too much lack of love and maturity evident. Sad. It doesn't have to be that way.

God Bless

[George]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

No George. Just for giggles. Read Gentry's book. Thank me afterwards.

I know of Gentry ... he left preterism to a post millennial viewpoint correct?  

I don't know how ANYONE with an open mind ... with the EVENTS taking place BEFORE OUR VERY EYES ... can believe it?

The whole idea of preterism is based AFTER 400 AD.  Basically it's a CATHOLIC doctrine and not the doctrine of the Apostles or the early church fathers.

Read the Diadache ... dated 2nd century ... talks of an abomination of desolation, etc.

Many of these people who are preterists who believe the resurrection already took place and we're in the Kingdom now have no idea that Paul dealt with this in the 1st century ... 

2Ti 2:15  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

KNOW THE WORD INSIDE AND OUT IS A COMMAND BY GOD!

2Ti 2:16  But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 

2Ti 2:17  and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 

2Ti 2:18  who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.

The whole reason why Paul has to write 2 Thessalonians 2 is to address this error of the resurrection already took place and points to the Abomination of Desolation as his proof text!

2Th 2:2  not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 

2Th 2:3  Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 

2Th 2:4  who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU is the WARNING!  Where do we hear this before?

Mat 24:4  And Jesus answered and said to them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 

And don't go Matthew 24 already took place because of the word generation ... oh a generation is supposed to take place ...

Read Matthew 24 in its context ...

Mat 24:3  As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 

So the question is ASKED ... WHEN is the SIGN OF YOUR COMING ...  

He wasn't asked ... when is the Temple being destroyed ... He was asked the SIGN of HIS COMING ... the condition of HIS COMING ... 

Mat 24:33  So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 

Mat 24:34  Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 

The GENERATION that SEES ALL OF THESE SIGNS ... Jesus then states THAT GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS AWAY until ALL OF THESE THINGS BE FULFILLED.

And this word 'Generation' is in the midst of the parable of the FIG TREE ... a picture of Israel ... and in another context can also mean ... this NATION shall not pass away until all of these things ... 

The word Genoa ... translated as generation at times was also translation as nation!

Why is it that Preterists AVOID the Old Testament?  Because it exposes their ERRORS!   Events taking place today ... THE NATION OF ISRAEL!  That's a SIGNPOST ... does it not exist?  Preterists may have gotten away with this 100 years ago ... but not today ... look around!

Honestly, it's a doctrine full of errors and wasn't even in existence till after the Roman Empire under Constantine had transformed the church into a "Kingdom" church and thus entered amillennialism, preterism, and as host of other doctrines that the Apostles never taught! 

You say approach it with an open mind ... look around ... you have to have a CLOSED MIND to ignore the prophecies are happening all around us!

[Steve_S]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

As I said, I am leaning toward an early writing and that before 70AD. There is much scholarly evidence to indicate this, both internal and external evidence.

I suggest a reading of Gentry's 'Before the Fall of Jerusalem' with Bible open. You may not agree with his conclusion, but I guarantee you will learn much and re-evaluate some things.

I'm not interested in reading it. I understand the various preterist positions. My question was whether or not all of the events from Revelation 20:1-4 have already occurred. Also, if they have, then when, specifically?

[kwikphilly]

3 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

I'm not interested in reading it. I understand the various preterist positions. My question was whether or not all of the events from Revelation 20:1-4 have already occurred. Also, if they have, then when, specifically?

Wow its GREAT to see you....... God Bless you Brother Steve❤❤❤