Different peoples, Different covenants, Different deaths, will NEVER fit into an 'either/or' explanation

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

So you said : "If I needed more info I am sure God would give it"

But do you really have any besides the      " bare grain" theory? 

Q: When God consumes this present earth with fervent heat in order to create a new earth, will He completely destroy and remove this planet from the universe? Or will He use the old sin- cursed earth and change it or make it new? I do believe this is a relevant comparison. 

I am not sure why you call what is written a THEORY or why you call it mine.  

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

NO THEORY, GODS TRUTH.  NOT MINE, HIS. 

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.



WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEN BEING SAVED AND NOT at death?

The ONLY thing the UNSAVED SOW, is a 'natural, flesh, earthen vessel' ALONG WITH a DEAD SPIRIT.
 

BUT what the SAVED sows is IN ADDITION is an incorruptible seed having been born again SAVED SPIRIT ALREADY MADE ALIVE.  ALREADY WITH A PLACE IN HEAVEN.  ALREADY WITH A PROMISE TO NEVER DIE.  

WHAT IS BORN to the BORN AGAIN?  What are we given?  What do we become.  A new creature IN WHICH THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN DWELL, for one thing. 

We are also BORN OF INCORRUPTIBE SEED. 

THAT DOESN'T COME AT DEATH THAT COME AT BIRTH FROM THE SPIRIT.




 

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1 Peter 1:21 Who by Him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Peter 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


WE ARE BORN AGAIN OF SEED INCORRUPTIBLE, when we are born again.  

WE ARE MADE INTO A NEW CREATURE, when we are born again.  

When the Holy Spirit  comes and dwells within us,  OUR NEWLY BORN SPIRITUAL BODIES take over for the 'dead flesh' ones and NOW, LED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, WE begin our walk with the Lord and OUR spiritual begin rules and reigns in our life and the reason why WE are to MORTIFY our flesh ones daily.



Why would GOD raise up that which we are to KILL even before it dies?  Why would GOD want to raise up something that is corruptible when HE provides us with one that isn't corruptible?  


WHO IS IT,  THAT would want you to believe that DECAY would be given immortality?  DOES that SOUND right?  DOES that FEEL right?  or does it follow more like WORDS and thoughts have been manipulated to deceive, brought together for another purpose?  

These are the things we must watch out for the VERY MOST.  

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food;

the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

In 'a certain way', you could say, that is what GOD said and it would CONTAIN a part of the TRUTH.  BUT it is only TRUE in a certain way. But once the 'certain' way IS accepted, especially over what is ACTUALLY written,  ALL SORTS OF DIRECTIONS are opened up.  ALL BAD.  Our path is narrow. 

THIS IS WHAT GOD IS TEACHING US.  WE CAN'T CHANGE THE ORDER, THE WAY, OR THE MEANING in any way, EVEN IF IT 'SEEMS' OK and is basically the truth, because ANYTHING THAT ISN'T GODS EXACT TRUTH,  will be twisted into a lie. That is how Satan works.  That is his MO.  AND once we EAT that first lie, we are no longer in GODS TRUTH.  

It takes almost NOTHING to twist GODS WORDS.  That is why we are not to just learn them but to learn them in a specific way.  

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

When we learn it the way God tells us to, we receive HIS TRUTH, in HIS ORDER,  and we don't have the opportunity to make up our own truth by jumping around and trying to make things fit. 

Another problem, WE CAN makes a lot of things FIT, but NEVER ALL, and MANY TIMES they don't turn out to show us
THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD because they are corrupted.  


AGAIN, When God had just PROCLAIMED 
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

WHAT IS the first thing out of Satans mouth?  

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

GOD SAID, Satan calls it into question. Tries to rearrange, find excuses, bring in the wisdom and knowledge of man, go by the letter or the definitions of words, history books written by men, conclusions of men, etc.  

ONLY ONE THING WE CAN BE SURE OF ON THIS EARTH AND THAT IS THE LEADING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN 

Psalm 12:1 Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

Psalm 12:2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

Psalm 12:3 The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

Psalm 12:4 Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

Psalm 12:5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psalm 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Psalm 12:8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.

But who will take the leading of the Holy Spirit over the wisdom and knowledge and laws of grammar and definitions of words?  Not many,  because though we KNOW the words of the Lord are pure, we should know that there ARE key parts that have been 'messed' with so as to bring into question things when they are all but certain.  How does someone say 'this is corrupted' but not that.  The Holy Spirit will but you have to be willing to take a beating every time you need to say it.  

 

Does this question help to back up your belief somehow?  Is it not conjecture on your part and not what is written?  Do you see the pattern.  Going from one thing to the next NONE OF THEM saying what you need them to say.  so
I understand why you believe there is a relevant comparison. 

BUT what does GOD SAY ABOUT THE EARTH? 

Isaiah 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

Isaiah 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Isaiah 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.


Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
SO MUCH FOR 'THE RAPTURE' BRINGING OTHERS TO FAITH

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

 

[DeighAnn]

17 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

You stated : "When the Holy Spirit  comes and dwells within us,  OUR NEWLY BORN SPIRITUAL BODIES take over for the 'dead flesh' ones and NOW,...."

That's absolutely false.  We ( who are redeemed) are and will be in bodies of sinful flesh until they become changed at Christ's coming, in or out of the grave. 

I do agree we remain in corruptible bodies, and that believing in God doesn't change the body into one that can't be killed or hurt or get sick etc.   I sure hope that isn't what you were asking I believed, as that would just make me a ... a complete nut.  No,  I am sure I didn't say it well, simple I think,  but not well.  I am talking about 'the incorruptible seed planted when we are born again'.  Maybe too spiritual or again, I am not explaining it well so easily taken as wrong.  Maybe this will show the 'celestial' side I am trying to put forth.  

We are sinners in corruptible bodies.  How does the Holy Spirit dwell there and how do you agree with these verses?  

 

John 9:30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

John 9:32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. 


Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Hopefully that gives the proper idea in a better way.  I should always just use Scripture.  



AS FOR THE TIMING 'when Jesus comes' when we die or 'when Jesus returns' to begin the Lords Day,  all comes down to if you believe 'you will never die' or you believe you will be resurrected with the dead in the resurrection of the Just and the unjust.  

I believe one way He comes for us be where He is (on our last day)and if someone died 2000 years ago and hasn't gone to been WITH HIM WHERE HE IS, 

THAT IS A REALLY BIG PROBLEM and some xplaining to do.

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
 

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.



And then there is the 

 

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

When the alive and remaining are gathered TOGETHER from the four winds...., 

What about those 'from Hades?  The DEAD that rise?.    No elect going to be gathered from there?  Not one elect rising from Hades?  

[Cntrysner]

22 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Yeah, no disagreement here. The spirit essence of the true believer upon death goes to be with the Lord. The corpse is in the ground " sleeping", to use O.T. language, waiting for the Second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to them be  "changed" into a glorified spiritual body and reunite with it's soul..Incredibly awesome as well as mysterious! Thank you Lord Jesus for this blessed hope!

So, the resurrected flesh body of Christ is your prototype and you believe your flesh will be glorified when Christ returns?

Please provide scripture for the glorification of a fleshly body. 
 

[DeighAnn]

17 hours ago, believeinHim said:

'Right For You, But Not For Me; A Response to Moral Relativism' ~Steven Garofalo, From Barnes and Noble, and~or Walmart, Not Amazon. 

Right for God, is right for you and right for me, and besides that,  there is no other way.  It is a slippery slope to think that 'any way is ok' when it comes to God.  He is very specific and we shouldn't, IMHO,  make excuses to make each other feel better.  This is after all, life or death.  How many different ways is it written, It's a narrow path and it is HIS way, the only way.

[Cntrysner]

19 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

You stated: "Please provide scripture for the glorification of a fleshly body. "

Simple. Just refer to any verse that  contains the word " resurrection".

You're evading the request because you're not able to provide the scripture?

Joh 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

According to you the damned will receive glorified bodies.

Jesus reveals both good and evil are resurrected therefore your statement is false. 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

The gathering of God's elect ( all who were chosen to salvation, Jew and Gentile) is at the resurrection on the last day. We're all going home... praise God!

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am; that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me: for Thou lovedst Me before the foundation of the world.

Super simple questions tell us what Jesus meant by NEVER DIE.  WE'RE ALL GOING HOME...PRAISE GOD!

Where is  CHRIST?   

What does FOLLOW mean? 

What does BE WITH Him WHERE HE IS mean?  


YOU DO REALIZE by the time CHRIST HAS RETURNED, heaven is UPON the earth,  NO LONGER unseen, AND ANY POSSIBILITY OF EVER FOLLOWING HIM would not be possible.  


The kingdoms of this world have become HIS. 

If what you say are truth, then

If you didn't/weren't, 'resurrected'/raised up before that day then YOU would never, NEVER SEE the HEAVEN,  WHERE CHRIST SITS at the right hand of God, where the angles fall down and worship HIM.  You will never see the elders on their thrones in the configuration that presently is.  YOU WILL never be in heaven while humans walk the earth.  You will ALWAYS be here be it valley of shadow of death, until the Lord returns.  You will never behold HIS GLORY in heaven, where HE IS RIGHT NOW.  Where Enoch, and Elijah are, you will never be.  You will be wait to be resurrected

So, PRAISE GOD we DO FOLLOW HIM.  And that HE ALREADY PAID 

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am; that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me: for Thou lovedst Me before the foundation of the world.

You know that requires us following Him.  WHERE PETER IS, HAS BEEN,  AND WILL BE,  UNTIL HE RETURNS WITH CHRIST. 

 

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:  26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.


John 12:26 If any man serve Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there shall also My servant be: if any man serve me, him will My Father honour.

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.


John 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

John 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.


 

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on Him that sent me.

John 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth Him that sent me.

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness.

 

2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

2 Corinthians 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


2Corinthians 10:18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.
 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

You're evading the request because you're not able to provide the scripture?

Joh 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

According to you the damned will receive glorified bodies.

Jesus reveals both good and evil are resurrected therefore your statement is false. 

It's like Eve eating 'an apple', at least it was for me.  I couldn't hardly believe it when I couldn't find it written in the words of God.  Something I thought had to be true, after all, that's what everyone I knew told me.  Pretty sure they all believed it was true too.   


 

[DeighAnn]

19 minutes ago, believeinHim said:

It's a book about the ;Response to Moral Relativism. It is in favor of a black and white society and vision for the life of Christians. 

Christians only have the one standard, or should.  BUT we aren't so different today than when Daniel prayed this prayer, are we?  We may now be calling ourselves Christians but GODS PEOPLE under whatever name, keep making the same mistakes.  

(Daniel certainly sets a great example of what God responds to, doesn't he?)  

Daniel 9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplication, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love Him, and to them that keep His commandments;

Daniel 9:5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments

Daniel 9:6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

Daniel 9:7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.

Daniel 9:8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.

Daniel 9:9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;

Daniel 9:10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.

Daniel 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

Daniel 9:12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

Daniel 9:14 Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth for we obeyed not his voice.


 

[DeighAnn]

Seeing as the thread has run it course,  a quick non technical kinda summary of sorts.

The saved and the unsaved are two different groups of souls who experience different lives and different deaths and different resurrections.  

Before Christ came and defeated death and opened up the graves for those who found themselves dead under the law (the law could not forgive so break one law break them all and die in sin).  SIN equaled DEATH.  And sinners don't go to heaven. 

Then Christ gave His life FOR US,  so our sins could be forgiven BY GRACE,  He went and preached that good news to THOSE WHO SLEPT (or were amongst the DEAD up until then), and when they accepted Christ as the Lord and Saviour upon hearing the good news they too ROSE.  The graves were opened to make a 'showing' of what was accomplished and all those washed clean in the blood of the Lamb slain, and death had to release them as there was no more sin attached to them in which to hold them.  They were all taken to heaven while those who DIDN'T receive the good news, remained in their sin, and just stayed dead and are still there to this day. 

WHAT IS WRITTEN THAT CAN'T BE DENIED
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
 

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


NOW, no longer under the LAW, but through the blood of the Lamb slain, we don't DIE in sin like they did. 
OUR DEATH AND RESURRECTION, comes  before the death and burial of the 'sinful flesh'.  IT MAY be 'symbolic' while we still live in this world,  but it becomes REALITY when the flesh of this world dies

because 

WE DIED when we came to repentance and our sins were forgiven and we were BAPTIZED.  Just as Jesus Christ willingly died for us, we willingly KILL our carnal flesh led 'life' by going down into the grave (under the water) and RISING UP (out of the water) into the spiritual led heavenly reality, being born A NEW CREATURE.

It is at this point we are 'born again' of incorruptible seed.  THIS is why WE NEVER DIE again. Only the flesh body that holds us to this life.  But spiritually, we have ALREADY DIED.  We have ALREADY RISEN.  We are ALREADY SEATED in heavenly places.  THERE IS NO NEED FOR ANY ETERNAL PART OF US TO GO ANYWHERE NEAR the DEATH or the grave of this world.  DEATH HAS NO claim to us.  WE HAVE BEEN SET FREE.  We have been SAVED from the bondage of DEATH.  WE have BEGUN OUR ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST.  Those of this carnal world can not understand the things of the spirit.   Only the Holy Spirit can open up the eyes necessary to see them.  We can only plant seeds and hope and pray.  No matter what, we have given the warning and so there be no blood on our hands.  

SO what is written about those SAVED under grace?  

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

WHOEVER COMES TO FAITH BY HEARING THE WORDS OF GOD

SHALL NEVER DIE.  


John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


 

John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there shall also My servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.



John 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that hishour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;



 

John 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow Me now; but thou shalt follow Me afterwards.


John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.



 

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

NO WAY IS THE COMFORTER GOING TO HADES

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Again, NO WAY IS THE COMFORTER GOING TO HADES, NEVER EVER EVER.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

NOT ONLY WILL HE SEND THE HOLY SPIRIT, BUT HE WILL COME TO US ON THE DAY WE 'GIVE UP THE GHOST' TO GO BE WITH HIM

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth Me no more;
but ye see Me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in Me, and I in you.

GO AND READ ALL THESE CHAPTERS AND YOU WILL NOTICE NO CONNECTIONS ARE BEING MADE WITH 'THE LAST DAY' (except by Martha) ABOUT THE 2ND ADVENT OR THE END OF THE AGE.  Nothing is being spoken of HIS RETURN but THERE ARE MANY MENTIONS OF FOLLOWING HIM TO GO BE WHERE HE IS, IN HEAVEN WITH THE FATHER.

 

John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

John 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in My name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

John 16:27 For the Father Himself loveth you, because ye have loved Me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

 

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.


John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am; that they may behold My glory, which thou hast given Me: for thou lovedst Me before the foundation of the world.





 

[DeighAnn]

12 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Think about it. To be damned is to be destroyed, not live on forever. The unsaved " shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" ( In. 3:36).

The unsaved will not be resurrected into a new body because it's not going to live on for ever ( in a made up place called " hell"). Whatever remains of their corpses will be raised on the face of the earth ( in the resurrection of the last day) to be damned or shamed. 

You know me, 'what is written' is what I believe and what you SAY just isn't written,

WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ANY SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS DEAD FLESH RISES BUT WHAT WE KEEP READING OVER AND OVER,  IS DEAD FLESH GOES BACK TO DUST. 

I am not sure why you keep saying it, especially after having searched and seeked for it YOURSELF, and not found it anywhere, but, OK, I guess

What is written?  What info does GODS WORD GIVE to us?

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1ST DEATH IS DEATH OF THE FLESH, EARTH BODY.  2ND DEATH IS DEATH OF THE IMPERISHABLE BODY, THE ONLY WAY FOR THAT BODY TO DIE IS IN THE LAKE OF FIRE.  

 

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

(Question for me is not about the condition of the man but THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of God and I just can't see God playing in the decomp and decay, no matter what the condition of the soul may be. Lake of FIRE isn't going to hurt 'dead flesh' but being in imperishable 'spiritual flesh' and heading to the lake of fire...THAT is something to be afraid of, IMO)


Once again I go by what I can find WRITTEN and leave my own 'wisdom' out as much as possible, knowing how GOD doesn't like it in His word and this also helps

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

WHAT IS WRITTEN is NOT what is SOWN is WHAT is raised.  For us to THINK something other than these things is not a good idea.  Christians, more than anyone else, always need to be pointing to GODS WORDS and not our own.  To find a TRUTH at least CLOSE to what is written and not the opposite of it because it is how we think or feel. 

Though I don't believe all of this applies to the saved and unsaved alike I believe it would STILL follow more along these lines than not and since I am not sure...still NOTHING ABOUT DEAD FLESH RISING ANYWHERE


1Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Would it even be possible for the LAST ADAM who was made a quickening spirit to raise up decay for life of any sort?  Again, I don't care about the state of the man, I care about WHAT GOD TELLS US IS RIGHT or RIGHTEOUS.  Vengeance is one thing, disgusting is another.  


AND no matter what, when CHRIST is here, it is heaven on earth.  Realms have changed.  

 

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

 1Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

THAT IS WHAT I SEE WRITTEN so that is where I will have to keep my beliefs.  

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

which brings me back to MY ORIGINAL POSITION about those SAVED bodies in the ground EVER EVER EVER  'rising up' to JOIN with that ALREADY immortal soul in their spiritual body returning with Christ for the ruling and reigning on the Lords Day.  


AS IT READS IN THE GREEK AND THE INTERLINEAR

This now I say, brothers, that flesh and blood kingdom of God to inherit not is able


NOR THE DECAY the IMMORTALITY  does inherit.  


THE SAVED SPIRITUAL BODY/SOUL/SPIRIT HAS TO GO TO HEAVEN BEFORE ANY DECAY SETS IN, and IT CAN NEVER COME BACK TO THE DECAY IN THE EARTH FOR ANYTHING

BECAUSE DECAY CAN'T INHERIT IMMORTALITY.  


(though I am not saying that at the end of the 1000 years that all the dead that rise at Christs return go into the lake of fire simply because they were in the earth as the flesh body decayed because I believe having their name in the book of life, WELL, FIXES THAT, but again,  that is just my opinion at the moment.) 


Everyone keeps picturing the earth to be the same for the Lords Day as it is now, and it just won't bee.  NO MORE EARTHEN VESSELS housing souls.  


Heaven is on earth.  Christ has arrived and the world has taken on the SPIRITUAL NATURE of GOD.  

Those who were alive and on the planet before He arrived were worshipping the ANTI CHRIST, Satan, the image, the beast, the false prophet, the WHAT EVER.  THERE is NO WAY any of them 'LIVED' through the '

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

LEAVING ONLY those who are alive and remaining and THEN THEY ARE CHANGED.  ALL EARTH MEN ARE GONE.  ONLY 'IMPERISHABLE' MEN REMAIN.  

THE ONLY DEATH FOR THE IMPERISHABLE IS LOF.  There will be no murders and rapes or 'crimes against other souls' while CHRIST IS RULING WITH A ROD OF IRON. No taking and giving in marriage.  No births.  

Remember, God ONLY CREATED SO MANY SOULS.   All must choose.  That choice comes to everyone in this flesh, not the next one.  It just wouldn't be RIGHT, or FAIR, or JUST to have some BE born and LIVE knowing and seeing GOD.  

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Interesting word 'host'

 6635. tsaba ►
Strong's Concordance
tsaba: army, war, warfare
Original Word: צָבָא
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: tsaba
Phonetic Spelling: (tsaw-baw')
Definition: army, war, warfare
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from tsaba
Definition
army, war, warfare
NASB Translation
armies (23), army (79), army* (1), battle (1), combat (1), conflict (1), forced to labor (1), hardship (1), host (30), hosts (292), hosts is the army (1), most (1), service (10), struggle (1), trained (1), war (35), warfare (1).


Any way, as you can see, I again, just can't agree, with any DECAY a rising up, as I see it, goes back to dust.