Resurrection of the Just and the Unjust Happens At The Second Coming

[DeighAnn]

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Did you not read of the church being caught up into the AIR and into the CLOUDS? Is that not being "removed from the earth?" Do you not believe John 14?

Yes I did.  And you asking the question is uncalled for and is only posed to make yourself look good and me look bad.  That is not GODS WAY.  That is not the Christian way. That is deceptive.   If we are CLAIMING to be Christians, then REBUKE if you must, but don't speak as THE DEAD speak or we will no longer be speaking as DUST will be wiped off my feet as I walk away.  That is twice.  One more and I am done.  


If all members on Worthy were banned, how many members would be left behind to chat on Worthy?  None, since ALL members were banned.  

If ALL the swimmers were eaten by sharks, how many swimmers would be left behind to swim?  Again, none as they ALL got eaten

We could go on and on all day and the results would be the same.  


Let's ask the question of our fellow Christian believers.  

Those who do not believe in pre trib rapture first.

When ALL the alive and remaining are changed, how many alive and remaining would be left?  

NONE because Jesus has returned and the Lords Day is beginning.  All those alive and remaining are changed and are caught up or gathered to the Lord and His armies AS THE LORD IS DESCENDING to sit on HIS THRONE upon the earth, the throne of David, and we will rule and reign with Him for 1000 years.  


Now watch what happens when DECEPTION gets involved in the words of God.  

How does the pre trib rapture theory ANSWER THE QUESTION?

All the alive and remaining are caught up and whisked off to heaven for 7 years. 

How many are left behind? 

The 'dead' rise first, so no DEAD left,

the alive and remaining are changed,  so no 'alive' left.  

How many are left behind?  

The question that can't be answered with anything but NONE.  

BUT SOME HOW through some 'SORT OF' wonder, the pre trib rapture theory TELLS us, that magically, there will be many are left behind.  

WHY?  Only one reason 

Many have to/must be 'left behind' for the church to be raptured PRE TRIB.  




So DO I BELIEVE in what is written in John 14?  I believe EVERY word of the Bible as it is written,

same as I DON'T BELIEVE any man that tries to deceive me into believing WHAT ISN'T WRITTEN and is nothing more than a personal interpretation is the truth.  

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

What does Paul tell us about those left behind at the rapture?

1 Thes. 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Who has to be here, to hear them saying PEACE AND SAFETY?  The church.

Again, there is no one left once 'the dead' rise and the alive and remaining are changed.  Every thing that follows is fruit of the poisonous tree.  

But since you brought up a perfect example, what do we find written in 1 Thess 5? 
 
1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Not the 'days' but the day.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Does that sound ANYTHING like  "But ye brethren WILL BE IN HEAVEN so that day won't overtake you?"  

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Does that sound ANYTHING like 'Ye are the church that will be in heaven'?  

1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Not the hope of pre trib rapture which,  I'm sure all would agree,  would be a place to place that information if it were part of Gods Plan. 

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Nothing on PRE TRIB.  Every word about being prepared.  Living or dying doesn't matter because we are always with the Lord.  No need to go to heaven OUR PROTECTION is found in the breastplate of faith and love and the helmet, which is the hope of salvation,  NOT a pre trib rapture.   



I am many posts behind, so if you could wait until I catch up it would be nice.  

Edited July 10, 2022 by DeighAnn
I am many posts behind...

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Jesus comes with flaming fire. Sorry, but the "mess" is on your side.

The fiery furnace shows us that that fire won't touch us, won't even be able to smell any smoke on us even though it instantly burns up those NOT under Gods protection.  Those who don't have faith. 

 

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Paul goes on in his second letter: chapter 2:

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

However, for those that will be saved, they will not be without the gospel: first God is going to have 144,000 witnesses, then Two Witnesses, and then ANGELS will preach the gospel to everyone in His own language, so no one will have an excuse.

Your theory then is not according to scripture but only human reasoning.  You quoted scripture, but not the right scriptures for this argument.

Yes, the 2nd letter. 

I noticed that you SKIPPED OVER the 3 times Paul speaks of Christ coming AFTER and not before the workings of Satan.   

How does THAT happen?   

1.  2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2  Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?


2.  2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


3.  2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, WHOSE COMING IS AFTER the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


What would a 'delusion' look like?   Whose coming is BEFORE aka pre trib ratpure theory. 

I don't have a theory and saying I do,  doesn't make it truth.  The 'theory' is the pre trib rapture because it can't be found written in the words of God.  Nothing anyone can say can change that fact.  


 

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

As for timing, Paul tells us the rapture will come before wrath. Did you not notice that Paul mentions the Day of the Lord (also called the Day of His wrath) just 3 verses after His classic rapture verse of 1 thes. 4:17?

Did you not understand from 1 Thes. 5 that THEY get sudden destruction (think wrath) while WE get caught up? Paul is telling us that the rapture will trigger the start of the Day of the Lord. 

In Revelation that would place the rapture just before the 6th seal. This agrees with the 5th seal church age martyrs because they are told that judgment (think wrath) will not come until the FINAL church age martyr. John is giving us a HUGE hint at the 5th seal that the rapture will follow the 5th seal but come before the 6th.

How amazing then that John saw the raptured church in heaven just after that in his vision.

The CLASSIC pre trib rapture MISUNDERSTANDING.  

Yes, THEY get sudden destruction.  The SEA being parted, WATER from a rock, FIERY furnace, Lions Den, an invisible army defeating the enemy....the list of GODS POWERS goes on and on.  WE are protected by the gospel armor.  QUIT THINKING IN THE FLESH.    Until you have FAITH in GOD to KEEP you NO MATTER WHAT, I can't help.  

Not even doing the Thess thing as it has been done to death and we all know how there is NO GOING BACK TO HEAVEN just those joining Christ and His army before the day begins.  

You say there is a rapture before the 6th seal.  How about showing me where GOD said it.

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

If you wish to stay behind and suffer through the time of God's wrath poured out - if this is where your faith is - I believe God will honor your faith and leave you behind. Everything we ever get from God we get by our faith.

And here in lies the problem you don't seem to get. 

YOU AND I BOTH will be here, not because we are LEFT BEHIND,  but because the church doesn't go anywhere to leave us behind.  AGAIN, YOU can't show the church being raptured WRITTEN IN THE WORDS OF GOD.  It is only written in the words of man by mans CONCLUSIONS on what they read.  That is not Gods Truth, that is man's truth.  The only way you could PROVE ME WRONG would be to SHOW IT WRITTEN in GODS WORDS.  

I will be protected for the falling of GODS WRATH because IT FALLS UPON THEM, not us.  Read the fiery furnace story AGAIN.  Those on the outside of Gods protection are all burnt up, those on the inside aren't even singed.  WHY is it OK to use the JEWISH WEDDING rituals but NOT believe in Gods protection?  I just don't get it.  

What happens to those who teach FALSELY especially after they have HEARD the truth?  

Just like Jesus.  You just don't get it.  I WISH TO SERVE GOD AND WILL DO SO UNTO DEATH.  I seek NOT TO SAVE MY LIFE.  If SUFFERING takes place then BY GOD I WILL come through on the other side JOYOUS because I STOOD for my Lord, I overcame for the name of the Lord, I endured to the end because IT WAS JUST THE BEGINNING.  
 

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;


who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


HE IS ASKING NO MORE OF YOU THAN HE HIMSELF GAVE.  

If PRE TRIB RAPTURE is not all about 'seeking to save your life', then what is it?


despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Does Jesus LEAVE the right hand at any time  before 'all his enemies are made his footstool'?


Hebrews 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

 

Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Matthew 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Is it my WISH to suffer, NO. 

Is it my WILL to suffer, YES.  



 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Read that verse again. WE get raptured while THEY are appointed to wrath. His wrath is the VERY REASON we are caught up. No earthly bridegroom worth with common sense would force his bride to choose death over being beheaded before they marry.  

Yes, we are raptured when GODS WRATH FALLS.  When does that happen?  When Christ returns and the dead rise and the alive and remaining are changed and the Lords Day begins.  

YOU are correct NO EARTHLY bridegroom.  BUT WE ARE NOT SPEAKING ABOUT AN EARTHLY BRIDEGROOM are we?  

I am not sure how you can STILL SEE  'the earthen vessels death',  as having anything to do with dying for someone who has been saved.   

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Beheaded, burnt, blown up, smashed, chopped up, sliced, diced, thrown in a dumpster, in a freezer, vaporized, diseased, dissected, shot, stabbed, eaten by animals and all the rest DOESN'T HAVE ANY BEARING on our SPIRITUAL BODY.  

The death of this flesh provides 'a bare seed'.  Think about what we know about a single cell.  It contains ALL of our DNA.  Do you realize that one cell is all God uses for our spiritual body?  How do you think the Rich man recognized Lazarus in Abrahams bosom?  

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


How many spirit/souls do we have?  just the one.  But how many bodies?  2


 

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Once again: if your faith is to be left behind and live through God's wrath, I believe God will honor your faith. However, since the church will be caught up, and since Jesus will take us to the homes He has prepared, why not rather believe to be accounted worthy to escape the time of God's wrath?

Yes, the 'church' will be taken to heaven, just EVERY MAN IN HIS own ORDER, as he is born and dies.    

One at at time, or in little groups,  as what has been happening ever since Jesus died and rose (EVEN SO THEM),  but as for 'the church' pre trib, YOU STILL HAVEN'T SHOWN IT TO BE TRUTH.  

You keep speaking of it as if you have proved something,  which you have not. 
EVERY THING that follows IS POISON.  No good, can't be believed.  UNTIL you can show THE CHURCH being raised up to heaven by WHAT IS WRITTEN, it is no more than a theory.  A theory is a theory here because it is supposition based on what is written, not what is written itself


  

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

This is imagination running wild. Let's stick closely with what is written. Please find ONE WORD here that would hint of death, or deception.

But it is what you are saying, not me.  So OK, I agree.  

The rest has already been addressed.




















 

 

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

If you wish to stay behind and suffer through the time of God's wrath poured out - if this is where your faith is - I believe God will honor your faith and leave you behind. Everything we ever get from God we get by our faith.

Gods Wrath is when the WIDE MOUTHED SHALLOW BOWLS ARE DUMPED OUT.  You think that takes 7 years?

 

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Does God want these people to be saved? Certainly He does! But as a song said, "there is a line that is drawn..." At this point in time - the last half of the 70th week - they got to the place of "no remedy." God will therefore send them "strong delusion" and they will then accept the mark of the beast and be damned.

It was the same in Noah's day. The people pushed God to the place of no more remedy: God chose to destroy the entire human race - all but 8 people.

The day is coming when God will destroy all the sinners  - this time with fire. There will be no sinners enter the millennial kingdom.

Does God want His people to be PROVED?  Yes he does, hence no pre trib rapture.  

What about those eaten by the birds?  Or those in the winepress?  

OF COuRSe there will be 'sinners' in the Millennium.  The DEAD rise at HIS RETURN and then 1000 years later THE DEAD stand in Judgment at the GWTJ.  

Who do you think we rule and reign and are priests for during the millennium?  Not the saved but those who HAVE YET to find out if their names will be in the book or they will go into the lake of fire.  

Why have a millennium if the NATIONS aren't coming to faith?  GODS WILL is that ALL come to repentance.  Do you think that Jesus needs to rule with a rod of Iron over those ruling with Him?  That makes no sense.  

In NOAHS day the fallen angels had ALMOST succeeded in polluting the bloodline though which Christ would come.  If Moses had also mixed, then  they would have been destroyed and God would have had to start all over again.  It was close.  I don't know how many times it has happened but if I had to make an educated guess I would say we are on number 8 which is 'a new beginning' so that works out well.  Well, that is all just supposition and even though it isn't written, it is a THEORY I am working on,  but even this theory  is further along than the pre trib one as I do have A verse for it.  

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

why not rather believe to be accounted worthy to escape the time of God's wrath?

I have faith that God's Wrath can fall all around me and not a hair on my head be effected by it.  I have faith that if I was killed by some fire ball, that I would continue on living in my spiritual body and so IT WOULDN'T MATTER EITHER WAY.  I don't fear the death of this body in any way shape or form because IT IS TEMPORARY and I have received the gift of SALVATION and I am NEVER GOING TO DIE.  Believe this, I do.  

Well I hope I have address all your concerns.  Now I must go feed the songbirds as they are out of food and the bees are starting to swarm which is making the hummingbirds have to fight for their food not to mention it's starting to get hot and they all need their showers so have to go turn that on and all the dogs are staring cause they haven't gotten the morning play and treats and are really tired of waiting because they keep placing themselves to the left and right of the computer screen so I can see them staring which just gets to be so funny as I move the computer slightly and so they have to move....  So until the next round....