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Catholicism vs Christianity

Angee Licaa
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Fidei Defensor

Fidei Defensor

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4 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Do the Anglican teach this?

I am attempting to speak to a priesthood as scripture speaks to it. Both in the law for a pattern and shadow, and its operation in the Church. You are bringing all kinds of other things into this. Penance = repentance. Have you repented since you came to Christ?

one sacrifice for all, and all time. So, how does he operate as a priest continually?

Boldly entering the throne of grace? So, you HAVE boldly entered the throne of grace once for all time and just stay there? Or does scripture speak of entering there at TIMES of need?

 Heb 4:16  Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

These conversations remind me of disputes concerning the doctrine of the trinity. That doctrine was never intended or formulated for our human mind and understanding to completely understand God's nature. Our minds cannot do that. Yet those that reject the doctrine always argue against it by applying human understanding to it's terms.

The same is done in this discussion IMO.

So let's apply that standard to your own priesthood you claim.

Do Christians enter into the throne room and receive God's grace through Christs blood, and stay there? Or do we have times of need to enter there. So it does not appear we merely enter in and stay there. Nor does it appear that once we have gone in to receive mercy and grace, that we never have need for it again. That is not what scripture paints of a priesthood.

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit, “In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory,” (Ephesians 1:13-14).

Yes we are In state of Grace always:

“But he said to me, “And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work,” (2 Corinthians 9:8), 

“And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.” (John 1:16)

“But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.” (1 Corinthians 15:10)

“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.” (2 Corinthians 12:9)

“But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” (Romans 5:15)

“For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people.” (Titus 2:11). 
 

We don’t have to keep going to get grace over and over, we got it when we first believed in Jesus. For grace means unmerited favor and is a free gift (Romans 5:15) deposited to us forever. The Apostle Peter said, “But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.” (Acts 15:12)

Now to settle it we are in Grace and Christ tells us He will never let us go:

The Words of Jesus Christ:

“My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of my hand, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand. The Father and I are One.” (John 10:26-30)

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Mama Etna
Mama Etna

The chief heartburn I have with catholicism is that catholics think they have to use middlemen, dead saints and Mary to reach God.  They think they have to go through the Mother Church to reach God. 

Sower
Sower

Then there is the one great major difference in what they believe vs scripture. The RCC teaches/believes in salvation by works!! The 'holy mother church' teaches, believes, nobody can be saved

ayin jade
ayin jade

Not so much that its not found in the bible as it is some things going on in churches are directly against what scripture tells us. 

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Marathoner

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There's the matter of the Roman Catholic veneration of "holy relics" to consider, which brings to mind a joke I heard many years ago. I'll employ artistic license to make it brief. ;)

A fellow stood in front of the huge cathedral downtown. "I wonder what this place is all about? Let's go inside and take a look!"

The guy goes inside and notices a large glass case prominently displayed. Inside are two skulls: a large skull and a much smaller skull. The Monsignor notices the man gazing upon the display and so he approaches.

"Welcome, my son. Might I be of assistance?"

The man looked at the Monsignor with a puzzled expression. "I reckon so. What on earth is that?," pointing at the large skull.

The Monsignor smiled. "That is the skull of John the Baptist."

The man grimaced. Pointing at the small skull, he asked, "Okay... so what is that?"

The Monsignor replied, "That's the skull of John the Baptist when he was a child."

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Posted
8 hours ago, Anne2 said:

I am attempting to speak to a priesthood as scripture speaks to it. Both in the law for a pattern and shadow, and its operation in the Church. You are bringing all kinds of other things into this.

Have no idea what that means, or just what you trying to say, Anne, so I can not reply to it.

8 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Penance = repentance. Have you repented since you came to Christ?

Actually, Anne,  I had to repent=(change my thinking) in order to come to Christ.

Penance, as a catholic understands, is not repentance.

Penance;  voluntary self-punishment inflicted as an outward expression of repentance for having done wrong.
An example of penance is when you say ten Hail Marys to earn forgiveness.:unsure:

(I have prayed thousands of them, confessed/received the priest's forgiveness, then went out to sin again)  Nothing changed. Wasn't connected to God yet. But I believed I was OK based upon what I was taught in the RCC...

Penance An act of self-mortification or devotion performed voluntarily to show sorrow for a sin or other wrongdoing.

“Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams”  1 Sam. 15:22

God does not want us hurting/inflicting pain to ourselves when we commit sin, but we are to confess our sins to God. As believers, all our sins have been forgiven. PERIOD. We don't try to prove to God how serious we are, how "penitent"we are, about our sins. He prefers us to simply obey Him. Agree with Him we have sinned. This acknowledgement to God also is planted within our own minds, as light,to help (remember/program)the next time the temptation comes to mind. Confession of sin restores fellowship with my creator/Savior. Yes.

repentance, a change of thinking leading to a change of action, obedience.
It includes turning away from sin (not just feeling sorry/penitent)and turning to God for forgiveness. Not saying a hail Mary to earn forgiveness. We cannot earn forgiveness. Jesus Christ paid it all with His blood. Saying a hail Mary is a false doctrine, as those who believe in the atonement know it is the blood of Jesus that covers our sins, and not His mother. (Our God is a jealous God) Yes.

8 hours ago, Anne2 said:

These conversations remind me of disputes concerning the doctrine of the trinity. That doctrine was never intended or formulated for our human mind and understanding to completely understand God's nature. Our minds cannot do that. Yet those that reject the doctrine always argue against it by applying human understanding to it's terms.

The same is done in this discussion IMO.

Anne, I can see you do not reply to any of what I try to show you in scripture as relates to this discussion. Bringing up the trinity debate shows me you are here to defend only your beliefs. I'm here to learn and encourage others to also, starting with allowing the holy spirit to teach us. I do not understand everything in scriptures, but my many years in the RCC helps me recognize false dogma (doctrine) from the truth I have learned as a born again believer.

8 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Do Christians enter into the throne room and receive God's grace through Christs blood, and stay there? Or do we have times of need to enter there. So it does not appear we merely enter in and stay there. Nor does it appear that once we have gone in to receive mercy and grace, that we never have need for it again. That is not what scripture paints of a priesthood.

Again, I have no idea of what your point is in your statements above. I'm not against you Anne, but for you. Just trying to help you see what the scripture say. I don't think at this time you are willing to consider that man's traditions are flawed within the Vatican/catholic traditions as much as you presently know. I have been there also, but once the holy spirit brought light into my mind, I couldn't get enough of it. I have much empathy for all catholics. Understand that please.

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Anne2

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

We don’t have to keep going to get grace over and over, we got it when we first believed in Jesus. For grace means unmerited favor and is a free gift (Romans 5:15) deposited to us forever. The Apostle Peter said, “But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.” (Acts 15:12)

So When you sin is your forgiveness for that sin by grace or not? IMO, it is not enough to just point out why you don't accept another. I am asking you about how your priesthood is correct. 

So you enter in to the throne room of Grace by the blood of Jesus Christ. It is by his blood you even enter there. What about when you sin? You also describe everyone as their own priest. How is that a priesthood? How does that operate within the body of Christ?  If you remain in a constant state of Grace how or why is there anymore a need to repent?

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Fidei Defensor

Fidei Defensor

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A really a good book to read is “Are We Together?” By R.C. Sproul. He lets you read the Catholic texts & Councils and read Scripture beside them. 
 

9F073FDE-6A55-41C3-A7C1-0001353C2BD3.jpeg.19f3ed03f8d04ff8b17544ae1f447025.jpeg

Fidei Defensor

Fidei Defensor

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Posted (edited)

I warn any brethern considering converting to Roman Catholicism: 

“How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?” (Galatians 3:3) 

I spent some time investigating Catholicism (2.5 years) and I found nothing but bondage. The Spirit of God is not there, but rather a strange spirit that obsesses in suffering and guilt. 
 

Christ came to free us, from sin and pointless pious ladder climbing. He made us whole and yet churches like Rome seek to take the freedom and replace it with pennance, prayers for the dead, purgatory, and plenary indulgences; all of which are worthless. You either believe “It is Finished,” at the cross or you don’t. 
 

“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” (Galatians 2:21) 

 

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Walter and Deborah

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Friday 7-15-22 6th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 15, 5782 25th. Summer Day

Ist. of all let us look at these two definitions:

 

Roman Catholicism | Definition, Beliefs, History, & Facts | Britannica

 

Fidei Defensor

Fidei Defensor

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Posted (edited)

Something I find ironic is the Romanite Church has all these Crucifixes up, which is “It’s Finished,” and yet they don’t believe it was enough. Its right in their face, that Christ had accomplished salvation for us, once for all time,

“Hebrews 9:11-28

Redemption Through the Blood of Christ

[11] But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) [12] he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. [13] For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, [14] how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

[15] Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. [16] For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. [17] For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. [18] Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. [19] For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, [20] saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.” [21] And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. [22] Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

[23] Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. [24] For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. [25] Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, [26] for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. [27] And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, [28] so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.”

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