Catholicism vs Christianity

[Anne2]

2 minutes ago, Heaven_Bound said:

Forsaking the gathering has NOTHING to do with a personal Walk in God.   The Personal Walk, not others with you but you ALONE, is where God works on us the most and where we learn to depend upon God.

You think this is not true of Catholics?

I have read thread after thread in here telling of the wonderful power of God working in and through individuals. I love reading those things. Real changes in the lives of people by the power of God operating. But one such claim is constantly bashed as evil. That of a priest. So you don't believe Christ is operating as high priest, in and through their ministry. That is no different IMO, than all the claims made in here of God working in you. The Historical Church does not claim to be doing these things of themselves, anymore than you do. Nor do they deny the operation of God among the people. the difference is Priesthood. No I don't claim that for myself, anymore than I claim God called me be a prophet, a healer. Not all were apostles either. It is really about the operation of the Apostles as priests, under the high Priest. You say you have it too, so you deny their operation in it. I for myself will not make such a judgment. Certainly not to rail against such as is done daily here.

[B-B]

4 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

The Historical Church does not claim to be doing these things of themselves, a

Hi @Anne2😊

In the context of this discussion thread, what are you referring to by using the term 'Historical Church'?

[Starise]

1 hour ago, Marathoner said:

As has already been shared in this topic, every member of the Body of Christ is a priest, my friend. We are a royal priesthood of God and Christ, offering up spiritual sacrifices pleasing to the Father. The sons and daughters of God have no need for an intermediary of any kind; scripture, and not the traditions of men, informs us in this regard.

Amen!

[B-B]

10 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

But one such claim is constantly bashed as evil. That of a priest. So you don't believe Christ is operating as high priest, in and through their ministry. That is no different IMO

I'm not sure if I agree with you here. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning...

[Starise]

13 minutes ago, Heaven_Bound said:

BTW, this does not mean I do not view God as Father-Word-Holy Spirit, it means Jesus told us Who has ALL AUTHORITY!   Only a moron would refuse to utilize, abide by, go through that Authority!

Brother (or sister) I agree with everything you say. I don't think anyone here is a moron. I believe many were simply raised in systems or told things that are simply not true, and since I want to keep you around here I would suggest a different more loving approach.

Truth always holds the high ground. The devil is a liar. Was from the very beginning. It probably should not surprise us in this day and age there are people who believe a lie. I pray the Lord will lift the scales from their eyes. The sad truth is many prefer to believe a lie.

[B-B]

18 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

the difference is Priesthood. No I don't claim that for myself, anymore than I claim God called me be a prophet, a healer. Not all were apostles either. It is really about the operation of the Apostles as priests, under the high Priest. You say you have it too, so you deny their operation in it. I for myself will not make such a judgment. Certainly not to rail against such as is done daily here.

I wonder if you were able to share your meaning here.. 

[Anne2]

6 minutes ago, Starise said:

As can be seen, there are numerous reasons to question the Catholic church, not that there aren't Catholic Christians because there are.

Yes, star rise. there are many reasons to question. And privately I do. But, I question a lot, that is done and said in Protestantism as well. I appreciate your attitude here. As I myself am not Catholic. Just as I was never a part of the holy laughter movement, holy barking movement. Nor would I attack Protestantism by using them as an example of it.

 

10 minutes ago, Starise said:

If a person is a true Catholic they believe THEY are the ONLY church.

First of all the catholic Church includes much more than the Roman Church. That is because of Apostolic succession of the priesthood. Just like the Apostolic council held in acts. They believe when they came together the holy spirit was among them in council. The whole Church assembled

Paul speaks of going to consult the Apostolic assembly of the whole Church to ensure he was not running in vain. He himself an apostle! 

Ga 2:2  And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

1. Good to US, An ASSEMBLY, IN ONE ACCORD.

Ac 15:25  It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

2. WHO ELSE WAS IN THE ASSEMBLY, And it seemed good to?
Ac 15:28  For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
 

24 minutes ago, Starise said:

It is curious to me they participate in, condone and even facilitate ecumenical  activity, yet their belief is THEY are the CHURCH and no other with the POPE as God's main representative on earth.Essentially standing in God's place in great contrast to a protestant minister who makes no such unbiblical claim.

Whole lot of problems with this.

1. The Bishop of Rome, VERY LATE, spoke this against The REST OF THE CHURCH. He spoke against the Authority of the rest of the APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY.

As for modern protestants, they make no such claim to THE HISTORIC apostolic AUTHORITY PERIOD. Some did consult with the historic Church, and became Orthodox. As The Roman Bishop had doctrine he had by his own authority was ruling in. The rest of the historic Apostolic Church had no such additions. Nor would they without assembling the entire body to do so.

The Anglican Church still maintained Apostolic succession of the priesthood. They are still handled differently due to this by the Catholic Church. Now Either you believe in The power of God operating among the assembly of all as in we see in acts, the holy spirit in attendance only in the whole o0f his body coming together in council,or you don't.

The early protestants must have accepted this authority in some form. As those councils were that which were the foundation of the ESSENTIALS of the faith to them all.

[Starise]

1 minute ago, Anne2 said:

Yes, star rise. there are many reasons to question. And privately I do. But, I question a lot, that is done and said in Protestantism as well. I appreciate your attitude here. As I myself am not Catholic. Just as I was never a part of the holy laughter movement, holy barking movement. Nor would I attack Protestantism by using them as an example of it.

I'll never forget the first time I met and spoke with a Catholic person about the differences of belief. Let's just say it didn't end well. It wasn't an argument. It was more of a very cold disconnected discussion. Nothing really good came from any of it.

Would probably be similar to a discussion with someone who was involved in a prosperity gospel church or a church pushing some false gifts doctrines or maybe better put, ways in which a person gets these gifts. Whole other can of worms I won't attempt to open here, yet there IS some similarity to the way a person receives these things all depending on how they are presented.

In realty it's GOD who shows us anything. He sometimes uses people do do that. Other times He doesn't. I think one error is in approaching a Catholic (or any other belief system that might be suspect) from the wrong end of it. The very first thing God wants to show all of us is His love for us all.He loves Catholics, He loves Protestants. He loves Atheists.

Who guides every Christian? The Spirit. Who gives every Christian understanding? The Spirit. Humans want to persuade. Humans want to convince. When we think we know we are right we can't wait to tell everyone. We generally try to save people from the top down instead of from the bottom up. See what I'm saying here?

Protestants- They came FROM Catholicism. Broke away from it for reasons made obvious. As a result some of them to this very day still have some of those practices left in the corners of those denominations.Sure they might name it something else.

Non Protestant churches- Baptists and Anabaptists have zero relationship to the Catholic church, no DNA whatsoever. Non Protestants predate protestants. No affiliation to any of that. Sadly , even some of them  have succumbed to worldly systems. In the end it can get confusing.

The main difference I see that really sticks out in contrast to protestant churches in Catholic churches is the leadership of the church which always goes to the pope who is held as equal with God on earth and the reason many churches broke away from them and formed new churches. This goes in stark contrast to the bible teachings on Christ as our ONLY mediator between us and God Almighty. I won't get into all the other things about them, but if you look into any of it at all you will see them.

Protestants don't have one man over them to tell all of them what God told him

I don't mean one man over each church. No the pope is more like Jesus as their leader.He is over ALL of their churches. 

Yes there are PLENTY of things wrong with the teachings in many Protestant churches too, but I took it we were mainly talking about the Catholic churches? I dunno.

30 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

First of all the catholic Church includes much more than the Roman Church. That is because of Apostolic succession of the priesthood. Just like the Apostolic council held in acts. They believe when they came together the holy spirit was among them in council. The whole Church assembled

I was recently involved in a brief study on Apostles. What an apostle is, what they do and if there was a "succession" of apostles. We had examples of the 12 apostles, then we had other examples of apostles, but these were not directly called of God like the original 12 and Paul. AS I understand it that term 'apostle' took on a different meaning later on and looks to be more accurately missionary or church planter. The difference between the two definitions? In the original 12 and Paul- These men were called DIRECTLY by God Himself to do His work, while the others were not. Depending on how you split these terms apostles are only called by God and not appointed by men in any church, not just the Catholic church.

36 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

As for modern protestants, they make no such claim to THE HISTORIC apostolic AUTHORITY PERIOD. Some did consult with the historic Church, and became Orthodox. As The Roman Bishop had doctrine he had by his own authority was ruling in. The rest of the historic Apostolic Church had no such additions. Nor would they without assembling the entire body to do so.

The Anglican Church still maintained Apostolic succession of the priesthood. They are still handled differently due to this by the Catholic Church. Now Either you believe in The power of God operating among the assembly of all as in we see in acts, the holy spirit in attendance only in the whole o0f his body coming together in council,or you don't.

The early protestants must have accepted this authority in some form. As those councils were that which were the foundation of the ESSENTIALS of the faith to them all.

Sooooooooo...............this would appear to be an example of "branches" in successive religious institutions using the term 'apostle' to leverage authority over those institutions.

I don't believe "apostolic succession" today exists unless God Himself decides to come to a man and appoint him to be one. I believe I have a fairly solid basis for this opinion. It is mostly the larger religious institutions who seem to be leveraging this as a way to wield authority or ascertain positions in the 'church'. These look to be human acts and not God acts IMHO. I don't believe we have had a true apostle on this earth according to what I see in the description of that job, in a very long time.

[Anne2]

57 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

First of all the catholic Church includes much more than the Roman Church. That is because of Apostolic succession of the priesthood. Just like the Apostolic council held in acts. They believe when they came together the holy spirit was among them in council. The whole Church assembled

Paul speaks of going to consult the Apostolic assembly of the whole Church to ensure he was not running in vain. He himself an apostle! 

What is an apostle, as priest

? This I believe needs some important context which is in my opinion at a complete loss, to both Rabbinic Judaism as well as the modern protestant Church.

What is lost? The function of the priesthood as a TEACHING BODY in AUTHORITY. All Protestants seem to see there is their role with regards to the alter and mediation of sin. NO! They were an abosolute teaching body over the people. So, when you see the Apostolic assembly in ACTS, you are infact seeing a very real and active operation of the priesthood.

So when the HISTORIC CHURCH speaks o0f Apostolic succession it is speaking of the authority of the priesthood in its deliberative AUTHORITY TO ESTABLISH A SENTENCE  OF JUDGEMENT IN A DISPUTE.

Cheif Justice of the Sanhedrin (the Judges)

The highest court, to settle matters to hard for the lower courts

Deut 17:8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;
9  And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:
10  And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
11  According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
12  And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel. {and will … : Heb. not to hearken }
13  And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.
 

Their authority as teachers, is based upon their role of drawing near to the alter to minister in the holy place is because

De 21:5  And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried

 

Deut 33:8  And of Levi he said, Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, and with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah;
9  Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant.
10  They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: they shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifice upon thine altar. {They shall teach: or, Let them teach } {they shall put: or, let them put } {before … : Heb. at thy nose }
11  Bless, LORD, his substance, and accept the work of his hands: smite through the loins of them that rise against him, and of them that hate him, that they rise not again.
 

The Angel of the Lord

Mal 2:7  For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

John the baptist a Levite, a son of Aaron.

Mal 3: 1  Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2  But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:
3  And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
 

Teaching authority. Cleansing and purging of the priests

Ac 1:22  Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
 

See the priesthood in it's God given entirety.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Anne2

[appy]

2 hours ago, Anne2 said:

But one such claim is constantly bashed as evil. That of a priest. So you don't believe Christ is operating as high priest, in and through their ministry.

I don't disagree, that Roman Catholics are humans who are in desperate need of hearing the gospel message as preached by the apostles in Scripture. And yes, there are some in the Roman Catholic church who have come to the truth, and have reported that they are extremely uncomfortable with what they see and hear in the rcc; and it is not long , before they leave the rcc behind. Don't be misled,

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

And what is the will of the Father?

John 6:29
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Roman Catholic priests preach and teach what their false institution tells them to say.  If they deviate from what the institution tells them, they will lose their position, and be excommunicated from the rcc.  They too, have been fully indoctrinated with error and so they can only forward the errors to the laity. They do NOT preach the gospel of the bible. They teach from the Roman Catholic catechism. Which leads away from Christ, NOT to Him.   The Holy Spirit, will never direct us to put faith in mary above Christ.  So no, Roman Catholic priests are NOT doing the work of God.