Christ was First but not first

[DeighAnn]

16 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

Then I guess we can agree Jesus was the first and only.

In flesh, yes. 

[BeyondET]

14 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

In flesh, yes. 

Rgr that now did Elijah go to the first,second or third heaven, scripture tells us there are 3

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, BeyondET said:

applying 1 cor 15 to two people in the Old Testament that nobody's know where God took them. Was it the First heaven, second heaven. Third heaven who knows,

 

2 Corinthians 12:2

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.

This heaven age, you call it 2nd I think.  Paul was taken to the 3rd or next heaven age (new heaven and new earth).  And you might have caught a glimpse of what I believe is the  first heaven age,  a few posts back, when the sons of God were watching the earth being created.  Not for everyone I know, but then again, what is. We shall all find out one day soon. 

I thought the comment kinda strange about where would they go though. Why would God take them anywhere other than where He is?  We are SONS of God,  His CHILDREN, those who He created for His pleasure.  How much pleasure can we bring Him being away from Him?  GOD LOVES US.  What would you do with your kids who loved you so much they couldn't stand to be away from you?  Sure they have to go to school, but you wouldn't want them living somewhere else when they didn't have to would you?  Well, I'm sure you know those are all rhetorical. 

So,  it was good conversing with you and I thank you for your time.  God bless...

[Your closest friendnt]

On 7/6/2022 at 6:31 PM, BeyondET said:

Ok so let's get back to the title of this thread about Jesus wasn't the first.

Was John missing something when he said no one had entered heaven accept the one who ascended.?

 

John 3:13 KJV 

 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

***this passage is from John ch.3...and it was Jesus conversing with Nicodemus, only Jesus converse with Nicodemus, and no John or anyone else...

This meeting with Nicodemus and Jesus took place before the Cross and the resurrection and the ascension of Jesus which was witness by many....

For that reason the words in v.13 could not be the words of anyone of the disciples who witness the ascension of Jesus just days before the Penticost. 

Also another reason that the words in v.13 cannot be the words of John is because John and the other disciples at that time they had not come to understand that Jesus has to die and raised from the dead and then be ascended into Heaven...

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

lso another reason that the words in v.13 cannot be the words of John is because John and the other disciples at that time they had not come to understand that Jesus has to die and raised from the dead and then be ascended into Heaven...

I'll just be using that 'interesting' emoji when I learn new things from your posts.  Just so you know I am not in contradiction,  but in agreeance and what is more interesting than learning something new.   

[JohnD]

On 5/31/2022 at 1:20 PM, DeighAnn said:

ALL GLORY TO GOD

 

We have Enoch and Elijah who 'alive' were changed and raised up to heaven,  an example of the alive and remaining 'will be changed' to join the Lord and the armies of heaven when they return to begin the Lords Day.  

We also have BY NAME Abraham, Isaac, Jacob who, though they weren't 'changed' (their FLESH was left behind to be buried when the spirit/soul/SEED body/breath left) they also were raised up to heaven aka 'never died' just like those who under GRACE.  THEY NEVER became a part of the dead waiting to be resurrected at a later time,  because OF SIN.  They were the examples of what would happen under the New Covenant for those SAVED under GRACE, going to be where HE IS.  They may have been living  'under the law'  of the day, yet they came to faith, just like we do, under grace.  

We know this because 

Luke 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

or

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

If one could have been 'perfect' under the law, he would NOT have gone to be with the dead because he would have had no sin.  

NO SIN equals NO DEATH because DEATH IS THE WAGES OF SIN. 



Jesus was the first to be raised OUT FROM THE DEAD.  

He was not the first to be raised up to heaven  

BUT

HE WAS the FIRST to be raised OUT from the dead, the first of those who died with sin, whos wages were death.  His was IMPUTED, His were the sins of the world, but they were also needed to descend, to defeat the bonds of death, to preach the good news

SO,

 His status of FIRST is NOT ONLY  from 'OUT from the dead',  but ALSO in rank, as in COMMANDER IN CHIEF just not in order of events


I believe, anyhow.

 

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

Colossians 1:13–18 (AV)
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

I believe this was the point you were making. An excellent one at that!

[JohnD]

There is no indication / evidence that Enoch or Elijah went to heaven (i.e. the third heaven [2 Corinthians 12:1-4] where God is) but were rather translated from this world to Sheol (without dying).

John 3:13 (AV)
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

That until the cross of Christ, not even the spirits of believers went to heaven after death but went to a holding pattern for the dead awaiting judgment.

See Luke 16:19-31 which describes this place, and Ephesians 4:8-10 alludes to this place (in particular the side of Abraham's Bosom) in the freeing of the

spirits of believers there and taking them as disembodied spirits to heaven** (2 Corinthians 5:1-8). And that to this very day, only the spirits of believers are there in heaven

with Christ who is the only resurrected human being (until the general resurrection described in Revelation 20:11-15 / 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 / 1 Corinthians 15:51-57).

At the general resurrection all will be raised that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is YHVH to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:8-11).

The damned will be judged and the saved will enter life.

** Since the cross of Christ, Abraham's Bosom has been empty.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

Enoch was taken up through the sky by a great horse. It is written in Enoch.

Elijah was taken up through the sky by a chariot of fire. 2 Kings 2:11

Jesus bodily ascended through the sky. Acts 1:9-11

Jesus was the first given a glorified body upon resurrection.
A spiritual body.
I speculate that a spiritual body is a body
with the spirit on the outside holding in the flesh.
Our bodies now are flesh on the outside containing spirit within.
The spirit being some sort of particles of light intermingling with our blood.
An immortal body is fully controlled by its spirit and therefore can walk through walls and whatnot.

 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Enoch was taken up through the sky by a great horse. It is written in Enoch.

Elijah was taken up through the sky by a chariot of fire. 2 Kings 2:11

Jesus bodily ascended through the sky. Acts 1:9-11

Jesus was the first given a glorified body upon resurrection.
A spiritual body.
I speculate that a spiritual body is a body
with the spirit on the outside holding in the flesh.
Our bodies now are flesh on the outside containing spirit within.
The spirit being some sort of particles of light intermingling with our blood.
An immortal body is fully controlled by its spirit and therefore can walk through walls and whatnot.

 

Few Scriptures to maybe take into consideration

God is the God of the living and NOT the dead.  He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  So EVEN MOSES told us that there were people being raised up to heaven even before Jesus walked the earth and Christ rose out from the dead.  

But those who were raised up DIDN'T DESCEND.  Only their dead flesh bodies went down into the earth.  They, LIKE us who are living and come to faith, NEVER DIED/die.  


Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
 

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Leviticus 17:12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

Leviticus 17:13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

Leviticus 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


Jesus was the first to rise up OUT FROM THE DEAD.  It doesn't say the first to receive a spiritual body.  

God is the God of the living meaning ABRAHAM is in heaven and is not dead in the earth waiting to be resurrected.   Neither is Isaac or Jacob or anyone who was perfect under the law nor anyone who came to faith while under the law.  They just like those who 

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


1 Peter 1:23
Having been born again not of seed perishable but of imperishable by word living of God and abiding

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2 Corinthians 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
 

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Luke 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.


1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

1 Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

1 Peter 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

Just some things to consider.