The Correct Chronology of Revelation Chapters 6 and 7

[kenny2212]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

As I said in the previous post, the revelation given by God was given to Holy men of God. It is not of private interpretation. What is written is exactly what we are to believe. When people start breaking out their private interpretations such as the "the 144,000 is the Church", or "the 144,000 is all of Israel", and they have ALL THIS REVELATION, I always find myself shaking my head. The 144,000 are 12,000 virgins from 12 tribes. Simple. You will never understand the Word of God until you believe, EXACTLY what is written.

There is a reason Jesus constantly said, "It is written" We are to believe what is written. What is written is the Word of God. Sadly, those that want to change what is written with their private interpretations will NEVER understand the Word of God.

That is not something that my Father would say. Here is what "is written". 

I can only show you what is written.

My thoughts exactly! 

[tatwo]

12 hours ago, The Light said:

That's not at all what I said...

You are correct...because what you said was..."I believe in common sense and reading what the Word says and accepting what it says. The Bible explains the Bible."

My response is "MY" response to what you said...I was not trying to cause you to be confused...as it may seem that you are...quite the contrary actually...In some ways you act Baptist.

 

[tatwo]

11 hours ago, The Light said:

There is a reason Jesus constantly said, "It is written" We are to believe what is written. What is written is the Word of God. Sadly, those that want to change what is written with their private interpretations will NEVER understand the Word of God.

Luk 4:4  And Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE.'"

Luk 4:8  Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'" 

Luk 4:12  And Jesus answered and said to him, "It is said, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

[Revelation Man]

19 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

My thoughts exactly! 

For starters, we all have the holy spirit, and the 12 gifts can be had be many, we don't have all the gifts, some have more than others, some have basically no gifts because they have buried their talents in the earth. The Prophet's had to go into the wilderness/desert in order to hear from God, in order to get away from other men in order for God to descend on them, because they had to go to a High Priest in order to get cleansed of all of their sins until the next visit remained, so they had to be tee totally committed to God and they had to separate themselves from mankind in order to get a divine visit. 

Our High Priest Jesus is available 24/7/365, thus when we sin on any small matter like not witnessing to someone late at night when we are tired when we were told to by the Spirit to do so, we can go straight away the next morning and get "sprinkled with his blood" thus we have access to the holy spirit 24/7/365 also, so we are living in the days the Prophets could only envy. 

The Light is wrong on his every thought except for a pre trib Rapture that I can see. He thinks the First 5 Seals are already broken. If that don't floor you, then just hold on and wait for more.

So, the 144,000 are 12,000 virgin men from each tribe(the light says).

BUT NOT ALL Israel as in 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completeness) x 10 x 10 which is indeed God shouting Fulness x Completeness. This is indeed ALL Israel who repents, but because he has OTHER IDEAS, he can't accept that, but of course the 10 Virgin Bride can be the COMPLETE (10) church. People like him are not consistent because they do not follow the logical symmetry of God who is consistent, they are wishy washy in the way they interpret the bible, especially Prophecy. 

I usually say if a guy is not Pre Trib I will not trust anything he has to say on Eschatology, well, the only thing I trust him about via Eschatology is the Pre Trib Rapture, a broke clock is correct twice a day so I am sure I might find something else one day I agree with him on via Eschatology. 

Anyone that doesn't understand the book of Revelation is chock full of codes, metaphors and symbolism just does not understand the book of Revelation.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Light is wrong on his every thought except for a pre trib Rapture that I can see. He thinks the First 5 Seals are already broken.

You seem to be confusing my beliefs with someone else. No seals are opened. They will not be opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then they will be opened one at a time, just as the Word says. 

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

If that don't floor you, hen just hold on and wait for more.

So, the 144,000 are 12,000 virgin men from each tribe, not ALL Israel as in 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completeness) x 10 x 10 which is indeed God shouting Fulness x Completeness th9s is ALL Israel who repents, but because he has OTHER IDEAS, he can't accept that, but of course the 10 Virgin Bride can be the COMPLETE (10) church. People like him are not consistent because they do not follow the logical symmetry of God who is consistent, they are wishy washy in the way they interpret the bible, especially Prophecy. 

I accept EXACTLY what the Word says. The Word says 144,000 are sealed. It does not say ALL OF ISRAEL is sealed. This is your private interpretation.

Revelation 7

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

The Word also says that 144,000 are the firstfruits of a harvest. It does not say, they are the harvest. 

Revelation 14

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The Word also says the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and are before the throne of God.

Revelation 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

So, the question to you is, if the 144,000 represents all of Israel, and they are redeemed FROM THE EARTH, BEFORE the harvest, how does Israel go through the wrath of God in a place of protection. The Word says, the 144,000 are before the throne of God. What you say makes no sense. 

 

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I usually say if a guy is nit Pre Trib I will not trust anything he has to say on Eschatology, well, the only thing I trust him about via Eschatology is the Pre Trib Rapture, a broke clock is correct twice a day so I am sure I might find something else one day I agree with him on via Eschatology. 

Anyone that doesn't understand the book of Revelation is chock full of codes, metaphors and symbolism just does not understand the book of Revelation.

The Bible explains the Bible. We can determine when symbolism is used. 144,000 is 144,000.

[The Light]

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

People like him are not consistent because they do not follow the logical symmetry of God who is consistent, they are wishy washy in the way they interpret the bible, especially Prophecy. 

 

Yeah. Wishy washy. Like believing EXACTLY what the Word says. You don't have to wonder what I believe. All you have to do is read what the Word says, and you got it. If the Word says if you have the faith of a mustard seed, you can move mountains, that's what I believe. I don''t need to say the mountains represent this or that, and the mustard seed represents this or that, with my own private interpretation.

The Word means EXACTLY what it says. And that's what I believe.

[kenny2212]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

You seem to be confusing my beliefs with someone else. No seals are opened. They will not be opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then they will be opened one at a time, just as the Word says. 

I accept EXACTLY what the Word says. The Word says 144,000 are sealed. It does not say ALL OF ISRAEL is sealed. This is your private interpretation.

Revelation 7

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

The Word also says that 144,000 are the firstfruits of a harvest. It does not say, they are the harvest. 

Revelation 14

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The Word also says the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and are before the throne of God.

Revelation 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

So, the question to you is, if the 144,000 represents all of Israel, and they are redeemed FROM THE EARTH, BEFORE the harvest, how does Israel go through the wrath of God in a place of protection. The Word says, the 144,000 are before the throne of God. What you say makes no sense. 

 

The Bible explains the Bible. We can determine when symbolism is used. 144,000 is 144,000.

My thoughts exactly! Again! You're hitting the nail on the head, brother!

Edited January 13, 2023 by kenny2212

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

You seem to be confusing my beliefs with someone else. No seals are opened. They will not be opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then they will be opened one at a time, just as the Word says. 

I think that would be me.  

but just as the Word says

And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.


SO HOW ARE THEY NOT OPENED IF WE KNOW WHAT WAS WRITTEN?  If they weren't opened we wouldn't know what was written.  

Are we saying that there has been no DEATH?  No unfair scales?  No one dying in the name of the LORD?  

I don't get it.  IT SAYS RIGHT THERE the Lamb got the book and OPENED ONE OF THE SEALS.  

WOW.  I truly read the Bible differently than most people it seems.  I read, WHEN THE LAMB OPENED ONE OF THE SEALS

and my BRAIN says OH, THAT SEAL HAS BEEN OPENED, no need to look to a future date for that....

[DeighAnn]

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed:


and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number,

of all nations,
and kindreds,
and people,
and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

So, it isn't just the TRIBES but also those of ALL NATIONS... AKA 'GRAFTED IN' FOLKS.  


BUT wait, that doesn't work with the pre trib thing though, does it????

if that's the case, that has got to go away.... somehow, someway, that has GOT to have some OTHER meaning or something, even though 

THAT IS exactly WHAT IS WRITTEN.    

 

[Brother Duke]

The key to Revelation is the woes and God's wrath.  They are time stamps on how to organize Revelation.  Revelation jumps around a bit and tells the same things from different viewpoints and symbology.  Also the word "Alas" is also the same word origin as woe.  You can also follow the earthquake.  The Earthquake of Rev 6:12 is the same quake as Rev 11:13.  There seems to always be a Earthquake around the time of resurrection as it happened during Christ and also when the 2 Witnesses are resurrected.

Revelation 6:12 corresponds with Matthew 24:29. 

The wrath of God which is after the 2nd woe is shown in Rev 6 and in Rev 11.

 

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Brother Duke
added Matthew 24