Daniel 9:26, 27 explained through New Test verses? YES? or no

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

It means AWAY FROM  (APO) and STASI (Standing). I cant help you understand facts, on the contrary, I would be surprised via anything you say which I agree with. Is like talking to a wall, none of the facts are ever acknowledged in your world view. 

The first 7 English Translations had DEPARTURE and the Latin Vulgate had Disceesio (Departure in Latin) but of course those facts mean nothing to you.  have much mire important things to do than to debate with a person not able to decipher facts. 

Satan seeks to deceive all men. 

As stated, (Thomas Ice) statement that Apostasia is a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven is "Laughable"

 

(Departure/Falling Away) is from a faith once held, not Tommy's claim of a pre-trib rapture, "Big Smiles"!

 

Strong’s Definitions G646

ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

---

KJV Translation Count — Total: 2x

The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).

The English word (Apostasy) seen below in Merriam-Webster, having its very foundation in the Greek word (Apostasia) 

Merriam-Webster

Definition of apostasy

1: an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith

2: abandonment of a previous loyalty : DEFECTION

Edited June 15, 2022 by truth7t7

[abcdef]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:02 AM, DeighAnn said:

When I compare 'the 70 destruction' with what I consider 'the real end time destruction of the city', there is quite a significant difference to the city, and is most definitely future 

The difference between the 70 AD city and the "end time destruction of the city".

Knowing the difference clarifies many issues.

----

What are the differences? Dan. 9:26-27, 26 is

Matt 24:1-28, .... Lk 21, .... Mk 13:5-23, 28-37. 

Some verses within these passages have been left out because they are talking about the time after the 70 AD destruction and the restoration of Jerusalem over time. (1967)

---

Understand, that there are 3 different versions of the NT passages, from men who were not present when Jesus spoke those words, which were written down decades later, translated over centuries, and we are now reading them 1900 years later.

There is a little bit of "fuzzy logic" to be expected.

-----

The anchor in the Dan 9:26-27 timeline is the coming of prince Jesus at the beginning of His ministry in 30 AD, the beginning of the 70th week.

He dies and is resurrected in 33 1/2 AD and the gospel kingdom of Israel begins on Pentecost.

The covenant that Jesus confirmed in Gal 3:17, lasted 7 years until Israel rejected the covenant in 37 AD.

The destruction of 70 AD Jerusalem was 40 years later yes, but doesn't that seem more obvious than a 1900 yr gap? 

Confirming that the Dan. 9 chapter is about the 70 AD destruction of the city and the sanctuary can be a firm point on the prophetic timeline.

The Matt 24, Mk 13, and Lk 21 timelines given by Jesus referencing Daniel are all confirming the Dan 9:26-27 timeline as being in progress while Jesus is on earth in 33 AD.

Jesus revealed more details about the Dan 9 timeline in the garden.

--

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

The difference between the 70 AD city and the "end time destruction of the city".

Knowing the difference clarifies many issues.

----

What are the differences? Dan. 9:26-27, 26 is

Matt 24:1-28, .... Lk 21, .... Mk 13:5-23, 28-37. 

Some verses within these passages have been left out because they are talking about the time after the 70 AD destruction and the restoration of Jerusalem over time. (1967)

---

Understand, that there are 3 different versions of the NT passages, from men who were not present when Jesus spoke those words, which were written down decades later, translated over centuries, and we are now reading them 1900 years later.

There is a little bit of "fuzzy logic" to be expected.

-----

The anchor in the Dan 9:26-27 timeline is the coming of prince Jesus at the beginning of His ministry in 30 AD, the beginning of the 70th week.

He dies and is resurrected in 33 1/2 AD and the gospel kingdom of Israel begins on Pentecost.

The covenant that Jesus confirmed in Gal 3:17, lasted 7 years until Israel rejected the covenant in 37 AD.

The destruction of 70 AD Jerusalem was 40 years later yes, but doesn't that seem more obvious than a 1900 yr gap? 

Confirming that the Dan. 9 chapter is about the 70 AD destruction of the city and the sanctuary can be a firm point on the prophetic timeline.

The Matt 24, Mk 13, and Lk 21 timelines given by Jesus referencing Daniel are all confirming the Dan 9:26-27 timeline as being in progress while Jesus is on earth in 33 AD.

Jesus revealed more details about the Dan 9 timeline in the garden.

--

Daniel's timeline is "Future", as the bad guy seen will be on earth causing desolation until the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End"

Merrian-Webster

Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummatingthe consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage

2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Edited June 16, 2022 by truth7t7

[abcdef]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Daniel's timeline is "Future", as the bad guy seen will be on earth causing desolation until the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End"

The Antichrist has been here for 2000 years, as the Roman iron legs/toes of the Dan. 2 statue, the Roman 4th beast of Dan 7, and the 8 Roman heads of the Rev 17 beast (The 8th is one of the 7.)

You may say, "The Bishop of Rome can't be the Antichrist, because the Antichrist hasn't been revealed yet." (The Antichrist was revealed as Caesar in 70 AD ish.)

That is his plan. Hide right in front of Christians and the worldly. Killing the children of Israel for 20 centuries.

If you would have lived, say, 400 years ago, the difference between the RCC and the reformation movement was "life threatening". At times, with the blessing of Rome they could kill you. Killed for just having a piece of scripture or for translating the scriptures into common languages.

As bad as that was, it was worse for the children of Israel. Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD and the children of Israel were scattered into the gentile nations for 1900 ish years.

And the chief persecutor for all that time?

Caesar and the Bishop of Rome. The 8th head is one of the seven, The Bishop of Rome is one of the Caesars, The Bishop of Rome is the 8th living head of the Roman beast, that lives on to this day.

 

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Merrian-Webster

Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummatingthe consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage

2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27 consummation

OK, What is the "ultimate end" of Jerusalem? 

Isn't Jerusalem eternal?

--

Which Jerusalem faces an end? 70 AD Jerusalem did. It was desolated in the eyes of every child of Israel. Wasn't that an end, an ultimate end, to the city that was once built there?

They can build another city on top of the old one, which they did, but the new city is not the old city. It has different streets and buildings, sewer systems, water systems, different markets. The old city that once was will never be again. 

In that case it could be said that the 70 AD city did meet its ultimate end.

--

What is the ultimate end of this present day Jerusalem?

The ultimate end of Jerusalem on this planet is seen in the Rev 20 fire from heaven.

Is that the ultimate end that you are talking about? 

 

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

 

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

---

Scriptural evidence that Jesus was the one who confirmed the covenant, Gal 3:17.

30 AD-37 AD seven years confirmed, until Israel ended the covenant in rejecting the gospel kingdom/(church).

Jesus caused the sacrifices to cease by destroying the city and sanctuary with Roman armies.  

Because of the rejection of Jesus, the gospel kingdom, and the persecution of His followers the city was destroyed by armies that God Himself brought there. Only God Himself could destroy the temple and the city, Jesus/God.

The ultimate end of that city was 70 AD.

Edited June 16, 2022 by abcdef

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, abcdef said:

Understand, that there are 3 different versions of the NT passages, from men who were not present when Jesus spoke those words, which were written down decades later, translated over centuries, and we are now reading them 1900 years later.

There is a little bit of "fuzzy logic" to be expected.

Dead Sea Scrolls proved otherwise.  

 

7 hours ago, abcdef said:

What are the differences? Dan. 9:26-27, 26 is

Matt 24:1-28, .... Lk 21, .... Mk 13:5-23, 28-37. 

Some verses within these passages have been left out because they are talking about the time after the 70 AD destruction and the restoration of Jerusalem over time. (1967)

How can that be? When we are told
 

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


It doesn't fit.  

 

7 hours ago, abcdef said:

The anchor in the Dan 9:26-27 timeline is the coming of prince Jesus at the beginning of His ministry in 30 AD, the beginning of the 70th week.

How can that be?  Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, 

If he is cut off before the 70th, how can the beginning be in the 70th?

[DeighAnn]

On 6/13/2022 at 8:42 AM, abcdef said:

The rejection of the new gospel covenant by Israel ended the 70th week of prophecy.

(No 1900 years gap)

Our understanding goes in two different directions.  Thank you for you replies. 

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, abcdef said:

Which Jerusalem faces an end? 70 AD Jerusalem did. It was desolated in the eyes of every child of Israel. Wasn't that an end, an ultimate end, to the city that was once built there?

They can build another city on top of the old one, which they did, but the new city is not the old city. It has different streets and buildings, sewer systems, water systems, different markets. The old city that once was will never be again. 

In that case it could be said that the 70 AD city did meet its ultimate end.

Why 70AD impossible to be what you say it is 


Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

[Charlie744]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Dead Sea Scrolls proved otherwise.  

 

How can that be? When we are told
 

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


It doesn't fit.  

 

How can that be?  Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, 

If he is cut off before the 70th, how can the beginning be in the 70th?

Don’t know if my comments will help but I will throw them out for your consideration:

1) the first section of the 490 year prophecy amounted to 49 years. This was the first section of time completed and there were very specific things to be done during this 49 years.

2) the second section of the 490 year prophecy amounted to 434 years. During this time period Daniel tells us “these things will be restored in Jerusalem.” And they were.

3) This means the total amount of 483 years of the 490 year prophecy has been completed. However, Daniel tells us that AFTER 3 score and 2 weeks (meaning AFTER the completion of the 2nd section - which is cumulatively 69 weeks - includes both the 1st and 2nd sections), but AFTER the end of the 62 weeks, the Messiah will be cut off. 
 

4) AFTER the completion of the 69 weeks starts the beginning of the 70th week, consequently the Messiah IS “cut off in the midst of the last week”. 
 

5) AFTER the 3 score and 2 weeks (or the 62 weeks- second section) the Messiah will come and be crucified. This is the exact same time as the Messiah coming AFTER the 69th week! Because the 1st section of 49 years or 7 weeks has already been completed. 
 

6) Saying a little differently- I hope this might help;

Say John started pitching in the first inning and stayed in for 3 innings.

Then Joe came in to pitch for 4 innings (so far a total of 7 innings have been completed).

Then Mike comes in to pitch the last two innings AND the announcer tells the fans over the PA system that Mike will come in and replace Joe  AFTER 4 innings of pitching. Well, that is true but it was / is also AFTER both John and Joe have pitched 7 innings collectively. But the announcer just tells the fans Mike came in to replace Joe AFTER 4 innings.
 

Same with the Messiah- He will be cut off AFTER the 62 weeks have ended (similar to the 4 innings pitched by Joe which really is at the end of the 7th inning. Mike will begin the start of the 8th inning. The Messiah will start His ministry at the beginning of the 70th week. But He will be cut off within 3.5 years if the total 7 year period. 
 

One more thing: As a result of the Jews rejected and crucifying their Messiah, the 70th week was cut off as well. Jesus did not get a chance to stay the entire 7 years. However, He would still fulfill ALL 6 requirements found in Daniel 9:24-27 before He died. The 70 week prophecy was fulfilled short of its set time by 3.5 years BUT the most important fact is that Jesus fulfilled everything that He was asked to do by His Father during His ministry. 
 

He let us know that in the Cross when He cried out, Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing, and then tells us “It is finished”. 
 

What was finished? He would fulfill all 6 requirements despite the Jews cutting Him off in the midst of the final week of Daniel that HE WAS GIVEN TO COMPLETE HIS ASSIGNMENTS FROM GOD.  
 

This is also why the 490 years were broken into 3 separate sections. God wanted us to see those specific things to be restored back in Jerusalem after the Babylon captivity and most importantly, carving out those 6 requirements only Jesus could complete and emphasizing them for His completion in the last week of the 70 weeks prophecy. 
 

Charlie

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Charlie744
Left out 483 years

[DeighAnn]

 

11 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

4) AFTER the completion of the 69 weeks starts the beginning of the 70th week, consequently the Messiah IS “cut off in the midst of the last week”. 

Hi Charlie,  I still don't get it...  I can't see how what is written ....working with that....

What took place in the 3 1/2 years after Christ rose?  Anyway,  29 or 30AD Christ begins Ministry and is crucified 32-33AD some time

 Who began a covenant in 30Ad that ended in 37?  What happened from 33 to 37?  

 

11 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

One more thing: As a result of the Jews rejected and crucifying their Messiah, the 70th week was cut off as well.

Wouldn't only 1/2 of the last week be 'cut off',  since you are saying Christ was there for the first 1/2 of the final week?  

Doesn't that just leave 3 1/2 years or 1/2 week left?  
 

11 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Same with the Messiah- He will be cut off AFTER the 62 weeks have ended (similar to the 4 innings pitched by Joe which really is at the end of the 7th inning. Mike will begin the start of the 8th inning. The Messiah will start His ministry at the beginning of the 70th week. But He will be cut off within 3.5 years if the total 7 year period. 

I get lost but is HE CUT OFF at the beginning of the 70th week or in the midst of it?  

Do you see how what you are saying above and saying here are different?

1. Christ cut off after the 69
2. The 70th postponed for crucifying would mean He had to be 'cut off' IN the 69th, not the 70th.  So if He starts His ministry in the 70th then the 70th can't be postponed.  


And no matter what,  NOTHING happened to the TEMPLE until way after the 69th and/or 70th since  the temple wasn't destroyed until what would have been the 74 week or so?  HOW could that be,  if indeed after DOESN'T mean DURING the 70th but AFTER the 69th and before the 70th?  

If Christ was cut off AFTER the 69, and still AFTER the 69th and before the 70th the temple was destroyed,

then during A FUTURE 70th in which A little horn/vile person/anti christ would come and make a covenant for ONE WEEK and

in the midst of that week Satan kicked to the earth, deadly wound healed, the IMAGE to be worshipped set up, the buying and selling by the mark (taking away the love and oblation once going to God, now going to the image, the 'falling away/apostasy') and the AOD to stand

then when Jesus returns and destroys with His Brightness THEN at THAT time it could be truly said that upon HIS PEOPLE AND THE HOLY CITY

the transgression would be finished and they would no longer be in sin, and we know that is when the blindness comes off and the reconciliation for iniquity would be accomplished, and at THAT TIME, everlasting righteousness is brought to bear which would seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORD to sit upon the throne of David in the Millennial temple.  

 

11 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

What was finished? He would fulfill all 6 requirements despite the Jews cutting Him off in the midst of the final week of Daniel that HE WAS GIVEN TO COMPLETE HIS ASSIGNMENTS FROM GOD.  

The PRAYER was not about CHRIST, it was about the people and the city.

Christ ISN'T going to be doing that UNTIL THE BLINDNESS comes off of the branches cut off, until then they won't believe in Christ SO IT CAN'T HAPPEN.  That is what I can't seem to get through.  Somehow it starts to be about CHRIST and what He accomplished but HERE we are told He is cut off and Gods people become LO AMMI and remain that way and that is IN SIN.   So it didn't end back then no matter what you think took place with Christ, what He accomplished or not.  People and city.  THAT is the subject of the PRAYER. 

I sure hope you are reading all the minor prophets to help with Daniel because they all talk about the end times and bring in much understanding.  Lo Ammi.  That is the hiccup in your giddy up.  

 

Hosea 1:2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.

Hosea 1:3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.

Hosea 1:4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.

Hosea 1:5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel, in the valley of Jezreel.

Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

Hosea 1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

Hosea 1:8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.

Hosea 1:9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Hosea 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.


At least I didn't do the whole thing.  ALMOST.  

I do hope you will show me how you are working out the issues I can't reconcile with what is written.  To keep it short I am stopping

  

[Charlie744]

20 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

Hi Charlie,  I still don't get it...  I can't see how what is written ....working with that....

What took place in the 3 1/2 years after Christ rose?  Anyway,  29 or 30AD Christ begins Ministry and is crucified 32-33AD some time

 Who began a covenant in 30Ad that ended in 37?  What happened from 33 to 37?  

 

Wouldn't only 1/2 of the last week be 'cut off',  since you are saying Christ was there for the first 1/2 of the final week?  

Doesn't that just leave 3 1/2 years or 1/2 week left?  
 

I get lost but is HE CUT OFF at the beginning of the 70th week or in the midst of it?  

Do you see how what you are saying above and saying here are different?

1. Christ cut off after the 69
2. The 70th postponed for crucifying would mean He had to be 'cut off' IN the 69th, not the 70th.  So if He starts His ministry in the 70th then the 70th can't be postponed.  


And no matter what,  NOTHING happened to the TEMPLE until way after the 69th and/or 70th since  the temple wasn't destroyed until what would have been the 74 week or so?  HOW could that be,  if indeed after DOESN'T mean DURING the 70th but AFTER the 69th and before the 70th?  

If Christ was cut off AFTER the 69, and still AFTER the 69th and before the 70th the temple was destroyed,

then during A FUTURE 70th in which A little horn/vile person/anti christ would come and make a covenant for ONE WEEK and

in the midst of that week Satan kicked to the earth, deadly wound healed, the IMAGE to be worshipped set up, the buying and selling by the mark (taking away the love and oblation once going to God, now going to the image, the 'falling away/apostasy') and the AOD to stand

then when Jesus returns and destroys with His Brightness THEN at THAT time it could be truly said that upon HIS PEOPLE AND THE HOLY CITY

the transgression would be finished and they would no longer be in sin, and we know that is when the blindness comes off and the reconciliation for iniquity would be accomplished, and at THAT TIME, everlasting righteousness is brought to bear which would seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORD to sit upon the throne of David in the Millennial temple.  

 

The PRAYER was not about CHRIST, it was about the people and the city.

Christ ISN'T going to be doing that UNTIL THE BLINDNESS comes off of the branches cut off, until then they won't believe in Christ SO IT CAN'T HAPPEN.  That is what I can't seem to get through.  Somehow it starts to be about CHRIST and what He accomplished but HERE we are told He is cut off and Gods people become LO AMMI and remain that way and that is IN SIN.   So it didn't end back then no matter what you think took place with Christ, what He accomplished or not.  People and city.  THAT is the subject of the PRAYER. 

I sure hope you are reading all the minor prophets to help with Daniel because they all talk about the end times and bring in much understanding.  Lo Ammi.  That is the hiccup in your giddy up.  

 

Hosea 1:2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.

Hosea 1:3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.

Hosea 1:4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.

Hosea 1:5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel, in the valley of Jezreel.

Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

Hosea 1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

Hosea 1:8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.

Hosea 1:9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Hosea 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.


At least I didn't do the whole thing.  ALMOST.  

I do hope you will show me how you are working out the issues I can't reconcile with what is written.  To keep it short I am stopping

  

Thanks DeighAnn. I was hoping the baseball analogy would  / might allow you to see it but I guess it did not work very well. I will respond to your email later on this evening if you do not mind. Charlie