Did God create evil? (A look at Isaiah 45:7)

[Dan Knight]

Interesting. 

[other one]

Has anyone really defined what we think the word evil means.   If so I missed it and if not we really should do that to make sure everyone is talking about the same thing.

 

[Alive]

11 minutes ago, other one said:

Has anyone really defined what we think the word evil means.   If so I missed it and if not we really should do that to make sure everyone is talking about the same thing.

 

Yes--I think so, but a refresher.

⁷  I form the light and create darkness,  I make peace and create calamity;  I, the LORD, do all these things.’

That word calamity is:

H8273 | S H7451   רַע   raꜥ   312x

a. [root of: 8274, 8288; cf. 8317]. bad, disagreeable, inferior in quality; by extension: evil, wicked in ethical quality; what is disagreeable to God is ethically evil; God’s actions of judgment are disagreeable to the wicked (Ezek 14:21), but are not ethically evil. → bad; corrupt; destruction; disaster; evil; ugly; wicked, wickedness.

[Alive]

I like what Calvin wrote on this verse in his commentary:

Making peace, and creating evil. By the words “light” and “darkness” he describes metaphorically not only peace and war; but adverse and prosperous events of any kind; and he extends the word peace, according to the custom of Hebrew writers, to all success and prosperity. This is made abundantly clear by the contrast; for he contrasts “peace” not only with war, but with adverse events of every sort. Fanatics torture this word evil, as if God were the author of evil, that is, of sin; but it is very obvious how ridiculously they abuse this passage of the Prophet. This is sufficiently explained by the contrast, the parts of which must agree with each other; for he contrasts “peace” with “evil,” that is, with afflictions, wars, and other adverse occurrences. If he contrasted “righteousness” with “evil,” there would be some plausibility in their reasonings, but this is a manifest contrast of things that are opposite to each other. Consequently, we ought not to reject the ordinary distinction, that God is the author of the “evil” of punishment, but not of the “evil” of guilt.

[Alive]

Further looking returns this and I think may help us to understand. The same word is used here in Amos and translated as 'disaster' in the ESV and affliction in Young's Literal and calaimity in the NKJV.

Amos 3:6 (ESVS) Is a trumpet blown in a city,   and the people are not afraid?    Does disaster come to a city,   unless the LORD has done it?

Amos 3:6 (YNG) Is a trumpet blown in a city, And do people not tremble? Is there affliction in a city, And Jehovah hath not done [it]?

Amos 3:6 (NKJVS)  If a trumpet is blown in a city, will not the people be afraid?  If there is calamity in a city, will not the LORD have done it?

[other one]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Yes--I think so, but a refresher.

⁷  I form the light and create darkness,  I make peace and create calamity;  I, the LORD, do all these things.’

That word calamity is:

H8273 | S H7451   רַע   raꜥ   312x

a. [root of: 8274, 8288; cf. 8317]. bad, disagreeable, inferior in quality; by extension: evil, wicked in ethical quality; what is disagreeable to God is ethically evil; God’s actions of judgment are disagreeable to the wicked (Ezek 14:21), but are not ethically evil. → bad; corrupt; destruction; disaster; evil; ugly; wicked, wickedness.

I didn't mean the hebrew word, but since the KJV called it evil.   When we see that word what do we think.

[Alive]

1 minute ago, other one said:

I didn't mean the hebrew word, but since the KJV called it evil.   When we see that word what do we think.

Ah--I see what you mean. To put that into a sentence or two without using examples is gonna take some thought. The obvious is that which is contrary to God, but I think we may need more. In my minds eye--I see putrefaction.

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

The problem apparent is to credit satan with the power to bring evil in to existence and reorder God's will.

So you are saying it is God's purpose and will and creative act to bring forth evil?

2 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Satan can not usurp God's will and it is incorrect to assert that a lie/evil would have to be part of God's substance in order for God to bring it into existence.

lie and truth are easily distinguished in the order of necessary exist: in order for a lie to exist what must be first existing~ The truth which 'IS' God
John 14:6 (KJV)

[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

What I posted that sin has no place with God is based upon what lie really is and has no created substance but take the created substance truth and perverts it... just as we see in the first instance here

Genesis 3:3 (KJV)

[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

This being the Truth from God

then this from satan
Genesis 3:4 (KJV)

[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

God said you will die and satan took that and re-ordered it into you will not die...

Perhaps now you can see this reality more clearly as lie is fully dependent upon God existence as truth for lie to be... satan created nothing but took the truth and re-odered it to form lie and in this perversion, sin was born and has no place with God

2 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

God created all things and anything that is was brought into existence God was the source. God created satan for His purpose as He did all things that exist.

If you wish to think sin is a necessary thing you may... but what God has taught us about the eternity past and the eternity future, you are wrong... sin will have no exist or even possible to be in thought.... 

[Alive]

6 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

So you are saying it is God's purpose and will and creative act to bring forth evil?

lie and truth are easily distinguished in the order of necessary exist: in order for a lie to exist what must be first existing~ The truth which 'IS' God
John 14:6 (KJV)

[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

What I posted that sin has no place with God is based upon what lie really is and has no created substance but take the created substance truth and perverts it... just as we see in the first instance here

Genesis 3:3 (KJV)

[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

This being the Truth from God

then this from satan
Genesis 3:4 (KJV)

[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

God said you will die and satan took that and re-ordered it into you will not die...

 

Perhaps now you can see this reality more clearly as lie is fully dependent upon God existence as truth for lie to be... satan created nothing but took the truth and re-odered it to form lie and in this perversion, sin was born and has no place with God

 

If you wish to think sin is a necessary thing you may... but what God has taught us about the eternity past and the eternity future, you are wrong... sin will have no exist or even possible to be in thought.... 

POsts like these are a vital and necessary input into these conversations. As I previously suggested, the difficulty is in fully grasping how all we can know about our God are reconciled. I think we are not capable of that task--but we may very well be so enlightened one day.

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Alive said:

We also know that His Creation was made in such a way that it could be corrupted, as I mentioned earlier--just as Adam was not made corrupt, but he was made in such a way that he could become corrupt.

Here is where I say corruption has no place with God... never has and never will as you stated you believe... corruption is not a creative source but a rebellion formed from lie... God gave Lucifer the ability to witness the glory God gave him in position and ability so that He, Lucifer, could give what he experienced totally back to God
Ezekiel 28:14 (KJV)

[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

God tells us it was born out of the gifts God had given him

Ezekiel 28:16 (KJV)

[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:17 (KJV)

[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

He enjoyed what he had been given and did not want to give it back to God so in desire of keeping that glory he formed the first lie ever

Isaiah 14:13 (KJV)

[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

how sad for this wonderful creation of God to end in lie... all that he was already given him by God... all he had to do was to guide all that witnessed him back to God who had given it... but no he wanted to revel in and keep the recognition of other angels thus "iniquity was found in thee."