Joyce Meyer True or False Teacher?

[Mama Etna]

Not a fan of Joyce Meyer because she is a bit sloppy in expressing theology, but there is nothing really glaring wrong with her.  I have sat for a number of her sermons.   The accusations against her really don't have any foundation.

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, ayin jade said:

The most important decision you’ll ever make

https://www.amazon.com/Most-Important-Decision-Will-Ever/dp/0446691534/ref=asc_df_0446691534/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=564641476995&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18164328219870042489&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030327&hvtargid=pla-896734922597&psc=1

Thanks. Its 78 pages on Amazon Kindle. I’ll buy it and read it and report back. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Fidei Defensor

[Starise]

5 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Uh I posted the claims people made about her, and then shared her own video that debunked two of those claims. 
 

Its not love of a speaker. I actually haven’t watched Joyce in years. I made it my duty to investigate heretical claims against her, to see if what lots of people said was true, because Scripture tells us slander is evil, 

“Do not speak evil against one another, brothers.” (James 4:11) 

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.” (Exodus 20:16)

“To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.” (Titus 3:2) 

“So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander.” (1 Peter 2:1) 

“nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:10) 

I take these verses very seriously as I do all Scripture, that slandering is evil. Again if you have concrete proof of heresy, and wish to fight it, then that is fine. 
 

But allegations against a sister in Christ, Joyce Meyer, have been made that have been proven to be unfounded by her own words on her own ministry: 

 

I believe the Church is tearing itself apart with slander, gossip, and accusing one another:

“But if you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out! Beware of destroying one another.” (Galatians 5:15) 

Your mind may be made up. Mine isn't. 

I don't spend my time defending or discrediting people. I listen to pastors like John Mcarthur who are not afraid to expose sin for that it is.

The larger responsibility will lay on those person's who lead hundreds of thousands of other people. When a person claims they are led to lead others they have a far more demanding responsibility.

If I only ever taught Matthew as a teacher I would be committing the sin of omission. Some teachers choose to stay on certain subjects, unfortunately because this is beneficial to them to remain culturally accepted. These people often want numbers, not souls because numbers mean money. Would Joyce be in this if she made 40,000 dollars a year at it?

The Bible teaches some were teaching the word for vain reasons. God still used his word but He judged those people  I think Joyce is very selective in what she teaches and I don't have a good feeling about her so I will not ever endorse or watch her. 

If others disagree , then do what you feel led to do. I have zero interest in her for various reasons.  The only dog I have in this fight is my own and no other.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Starise

[Fidei Defensor]

6 minutes ago, Starise said:

Your mind may be made up. Mine isn't. 

I don't spend my time defending or discrediting people. I listen to pastors like John Mcarthur who are not afraid to expose sin for that it is.

The larger responsibility will lay on those person's who lead hundreds of thousands of other people. When a person claims they are led to lead others they have a far more demanding responsibility.

If I only ever taught Matthew as a teacher I would be committing the sin of omission. Some teachers choose to stay on certain subjects, unfortunately because this is beneficial to them to remain culturally accepted. These people often want numbers, not souls because numbers mean money. Would Joyce be in this if she made 40,000 dollars a year at it?

The Bible teaches some were teaching the word for vain reasons. God still used his word but He judged those people  I think Joyce is very selective in what she teaches and I don't have a good feeling about her so I will not ever endorse or watch her. 

If others disagree , then do what you feel led to do. I have zero interest in her for various reasons.  The only dog I have in this fight is my own and no other.

My mind isn’t made up. I am examinimg facts. 
 

I shared the video where Joyce herself in her own words affirms Jesus is the Son of God and we keep sinning (that she does not say she isn’t a sinner). 
 

I am now going to read her book where people claim she wrote about Jesus going hell and being tormented, to see if she says that. I paid 7.99 USD to read and confirm or disprove if that claim against her is true or false. 
 

As always its about quality of evidence and sources. That is what matters. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Fidei Defensor

[Starise]

4 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Well said, brother. I believe that the accusations and slander swirling about are a manifestation of a peculiar allegorical illustration which we find extant in scripture:

The metallurgical allegory of silver refined in the fire by the Lord. The dross (impurity) inherent in the ore floats to the surface, where it is removed by the master craftsman. Our Master Craftsman is God Himself, of course.

It's good that these things come to light.  

In this case the OP was asking if Joyce Meyer is a false teacher. On the basis of that question I believe any answer is fair game, not just the ones we agree with.

I for one, will not feel bad about giving an answer, no matter how much pressure is on here to do otherwise. 

[ayin jade]

@Starise

You might enjoy angus buchan. 

https://www.angusbuchan.co.za/

I have read some of his stuff and I think he is sound and well worth reading. I have not tried listening to his stuff though. I tend to keep the sound off my computer.

[Fidei Defensor]

6 minutes ago, Starise said:

In this case the OP was asking if Joyce Meyer is a false teacher. On the basis of that question I believe any answer is fair game, not just the ones we agree with.

I for one, will not feel bad about giving an answer, no matter how much pressure is on here to do otherwise. 

Of course, you must answer with your conscious. This thread would be dull if no one disagreed. In disagreeing we often learn more. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Fidei Defensor

[MissTury]

6 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Uh I posted the claims people made about her, and then shared her own video that debunked two of those claims. 

Then I said

"I have a simple question. How are we to know that you have fairly represented the claims and not misrepresented them? Shouldn't the same standard apply to you that you want from others? Maybe your assertions are inaccurate or taken out of context. Were these claims made in these forums?"

Never mind, I found it for myself. Omegaman 3.0 said:

Quote

Joyce has said, she is not a sinner. She has said that anyone who does not believe that Jesus went to Hell cannot be saved. She has said that when Jesus becames sin, He stopped being the Son of God. She has said that Jesus was born again. She had a version of the prosperity gospel, though I think she has repented of that.

So notice what Omegaman said:

Joyce has said
She has said
She has said
She has said
She had a version

Notice any similarities in the tenses of his comments? There are all past tense, and do not allege that she currently hold these views, or that she has never said anything which indicates that she things otherwise now.

If that is the case [and it is] then  Fidei Defensor has not done what he [or she] claims they have done. Then have not demonstrated the accusations to be false or refuted anything about them.

What he or she has shown is that Joyce Myer might be singing a different song now. Even that is not evidence that she has repented of past bad or sloppy theology, it only proves that she has not been consistent over the years.

Now if there is evidence somewhere of Joyce saying things like such as "you know when I said that, I was wrong and I apologize for misleading you" or "when I said that, what I really meant was". 

That would be good evidence of her current theology being better, but it would not remove those errors in her past history. Omegaman's accusations were about her saying things in the past that shows she had not been a good teacher, and that as such she should not be held in high regard as an example of why women should teach.

Now in as much as that is the case, I think an apology to Omegaman is probably in order, for misrepresenting what he said, which so far may well be right on the money. Perhaps a more thoughtful and accurate analysis is in order, one with less much emotional investment in the topic.

Interesting thread though, by the way!

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, MissTury said:

Then I said

"I have a simple question. How are we to know that you have fairly represented the claims and not misrepresented them? Shouldn't the same standard apply to you that you want from others? Maybe your assertions are inaccurate or taken out of context. Were these claims made in these forums?"

Never mind, I found it for myself. Omegaman 3.0 said:

So notice what Omegaman said:

Joyce has said
She has said
She has said
She has said
She had a version

Notice any similarities in the tenses of his comments? There are all past tense, and do not allege that she currently hold these views, or that she has never said anything which indicates that she things otherwise now.

If that is the case [and it is] then  Fidei Defensor has not done what he [or she] claims they have done. Then have not demonstrated the accusations to be false or refuted anything about them.

What he or she has shown is that Joyce Myer might be singing a different song now. Even that is not evidence that she has repented of past bad or sloppy theology, it only proves that she has not been consistent over the years.

Now if there is evidence somewhere of Joyce saying things like such as "you know when I said that, I was wrong and I apologize for misleading you" or "when I said that, what I really meant was". 

That would be good evidence of her current theology being better, but it would not remove those errors in her past history. Omegaman's accusations were about her saying things in the past that shows she had not been a good teacher, and that as such she should not be held in high regard as an example of why women should teach.

Now in as much as that is the case, I think an apology to Omegaman is probably in order, for misrepresenting what he said, which so far may well be right on the money. Perhaps a more thoughtful and accurate analysis is in order, one with less much emotional investment in the topic.

Interesting thread though, by the way!

Lol I addressed the claims not Omegaman, claims that Allen Parr of The Beat addresses in his video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jHLEwALutUc

I only tackled two claims about Joyce. I used a video showing she does not hold views. No one has yet provided ample proof she did before save sound bytes I question because they are easily altered. 
 

If anyone has video and booo of hers making claims 1) and 2) then share em. 
 

But ai tire of doing all the work, reading her book to see if she said that, checking videos and soundbytes while you people hurl accusations at her and me. 
 

Fair Well, I really hope our mansions in heaven are far.. far.. apart, cuz I don’t want you as a neighbor. 
 

[JohnR7]

18 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

1) She claims Jesus is no longer The Son of God (heresy)

2)  She says she isn’t a Sinner 

This is doctrine and women are not to teach doctrine. They can prophesy, they are to be ready with a testimony for the hope that is in them. 1 Timothy 2:13 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man.  

Older women are to teach the younger women and younger women are to teach the children. If they keep busy doing the ministry God is calling them to they will not have time to do what God is not calling them to do. 

To say women should teach the men makes as much sense as to say that older men should teach younger women. "teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children" Titus 2:4 AS a general rule men teach women they are to be a sub servant. When the Bible actually teaches it is the Husband that is to sacrifice himself for the wife as Jesus gave himself for His bride. 

I have talked to women pastors and they tell me that the men act like children. Not that they want them to, but that is the way they act.