Revelation and the meaning (so-called) of 666

[Dennis1209]

On 9/27/2022 at 10:47 AM, Starise said:

It is interesting to note 666 is part of all product codes as scanned by computers for identification or so I have been informed. If true, it might not escape many that this 'system' is a huge part of buying and selling presently.

It probably also hasn't escaped many that consolidation of large food enterprises and distribution systems has been happening and is only becoming more so, to the point that smaller operations are almost non existent in some locations.

The rest of the thinking coming from these sorts of developments is obvious and has been on the radar of many believers for a long time, ever since the early tech was developed.

My thoughts on the end times anti-christ are that he will come from a pervading evil spirit that has been working for a very long time toward the goals put forth n Revelation, Daniel and other books.

When I say this it might seem as if it's only a concept I've dreamed up, let me explain to all of you that I have done reserach into many of the organizations occult in nature. Almost ALL of them are looking for their man. Someone who will be their messiah. No they don't call him a messiah, but they look at this individual as someone who will lead the world to peace and unity THROUGH DISASSEMBLY AND DESTRUCTION. 

Disassembly of society as we know it and reassembly into a kingdom for the person they are looking for. Tearing down to build something else. This is not some out there theory. This is very real and very well planned. It's happening. The preparations for 'him'.  Muslims are looking for their person.  Jews are looking for their person. Those in the occult are looking for their person. These organizations are intertwined with one main goal.

My thoughts are maybe similar to those who see the AC coming from Rome. I will not go so far as to say he will be an emperor. Remember we have both the beast AND the FALSE prophet. 

There are those from every religion who are willing to break from their traditions to change the dynamic of what their religion teaches to have a one world religion, in addition to those who are looking for this man to come. We will know who he is when he comes, they will be deceived into thinking he is the answer for the world, yet they will also recognize the things about him that will set off their alarm that this is him. We will see him the deceiver and they will see him the messiah.

All temporary of course because he is very short lived here in this earth.

Your post reminds me of the United Nations slogan:

 

[Selah7]

Who comes at the 6th seal, the 6th trump and the 6th vial?   Selah 

[tatwo]

12 hours ago, AdHoc said:

O.K. You are right. My answer was within the context of one brother claiming insight against the grammar of what was  written. If you divorce the context, you are correct. Each of us MUST receive personal revelation concerning the Word.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you (Jn.14:26)

Go well bro.

My bad AdHoc...sorry...forgive me.

Tatwo...:)

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I accord you your right to see things as you see, but God did not give any "version" to Nebuchadnezzar. He gave it to Daniel.

Satan didn't give it to Nebuchadnezzar because he doesn't know the future so who gave "The Future of world events" unto Nebuchadnezzar if it wasn't God? 

22 hours ago, AdHoc said:

And God did not hold back anything to save Daniel. His interpretation of the vision in Chapter 4 brought praise and Daniel's sojourn in the lions den is proof that God did not hold back.

Of course he wanted Daniel to have FAVOR with Nebuchadnezzar, and God gave ole Neb that dream, then God showed Daniel the Interpretation of the dream. So, not only did God want to protect them, of course He could have delivered the WHOLE ATION anytime He wanted, but God wanted Daniel to be REKNOWED in History, and to FORETELL the whole history of Israel and mankind's Great Kingdoms as a testimony to him serving God. So, he also may have did it to save many other Jews, Satan is a liar, he may have seduced Neb to kill off many Jews etc. etc. God knows more than we know, of course. The point us God wanted Daniel to have sway with Nebuchadnezzar just ag He gave Joseph sway in Egypt.

22 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I personally would not disregard what is written. The elements did not show the morality of the king. They showed the strength of the kingdom. Nebuchadnezzar is not designated as gold for being moral. He is designated that because his kingdom was an autocratic monarchy - the same as Christ's Kingdom when it comes to earth. The next kingdom was "inferior" and given the element of silver because Cyrus and company were subject to the nobility - an Aristocracy. The weakest of all is "clay" - the rule of men, or, Democracy.

God sees them all as filth tbh. God Bless

Edited September 30, 2022 by Revelation Man

[WilliamL]

On 9/26/2022 at 4:56 PM, AdHoc said:

But you did not address my evidence. I will try to counter yours.

OK, I'll start from the top:

On 9/26/2022 at 3:58 PM, AdHoc said:

Verse 7.
Seven heads are seven Mountains or hills according to verse 9. As this is a world wide affair, we must look for a place among the six world powers that has seven hills.

Unscriptural, because you took this out of context. Here is the full sentence:

Rev. 17:9 The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, 10 and they are seven kings..."  So these cannot be literal mountains. So where does scripture explain this for us? Well, I this explained in Part 2 of my series on the Beast:

Jeremiah 51:24-26 and Daniel 2:34-35 tell us that – speaking prophetically – “mountains” may symbolize great kingdoms or empires:

Jeremiah 51:24 “And I will render unto Babylon, and unto all the inhabitants of Chaldea, all their evil they have done in Zion before your eyes,” says the LORD. 25 “Behold, I am against you, the mountain of the Destroyer,” says the LORD, “the one destroying all the earth. And I will stretch out My hand against you, and roll you down from the lofty crags, and will make you a burnt mountain. 26 And they shall not take from you a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but you shall be desolate for ever,” says the LORD.

Daniel 2:34 “You watched until that a stone was hewn out – that not by hands – which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were broken in pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors: and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them. And the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.”

Daniel 7:3 speaks of “four great beasts coming up from the sea.” Verse 17 tells us, “Those great beasts…are four kings.” Verse 23 tells us, “The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth…” Therefore – speaking prophetically – “beasts” and “kings” may symbolize powerful spirits that rule over kingdoms or empires on earth. For example, Daniel 11 describes how two spirit-kings, the King of the North and the King of the South, were able to serially possess, or at least control, long lines of human kings throughout the duration of their kingdoms.

Clearly, then, the seven mountains/kings/Beast’s heads of Revelation 17 symbolize powerful spirits that rule over, and are personified in, earthly empires. Thus the “one is,” in John’s day, was the spiritual ruler of the Roman Empire. The ‘fallen five’ were the spirits of the earlier empires that had oppressed God’s people: the spirits of Egypt, Assyria, Chaldeo-Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece.

On 9/26/2022 at 3:58 PM, AdHoc said:

Verse 8.
A "Beast". In Daniel, once, a Beast is a world power. In every other mention it means a man. This Beast was, then was not and then he comes out of the bottomless pit. ... No nations go to a bottomless pit ever in the Bible. But a man might if he dies.

No man is ever mentioned as going to the Abyss. Ever. Likewise, neither Daniel nor Revelation ever even suggest that the Beast of Rev. 13 is a man. Also, you totally ignored that this Beast has seven heads: a large omission on your part. A complete impossibility for a man. But not for a spirit. If you read The Beast, Part 2: Its Seven Heads [https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2779-the-beast-part-2-its-seven-heads/ ], you will understand more fully why the Beast must be a spirit. In you read Part 3, you will see the evidence that only fallen angels were cast into the Abyss, not men.

On 9/26/2022 at 4:56 PM, AdHoc said:

Angels cannot occupy a man. They already have a body. There is no case except Judas.

One case is all one needs: "Satan entered him." Satan is a spirit. However, the whole testimony of Daniel 11 about the spirit-kings of the north and the south show that these two heavenly sarim/spirits possessed, or dominated if your prefer, the human spirits of the long lines of the Seleucid and Ptolemy kingdoms.

On 9/26/2022 at 4:56 PM, AdHoc said:

"A collective spirit" presents difficulties. It is both singular and plural at the same time, and it never appears elsewhere in scripture.

Nonsense. The Church, the Body of Christ, is a collective spirit. We are one; just as Legion said of himself/themselves. Nations are collective spirits.

On 9/26/2022 at 4:56 PM, AdHoc said:

There is no record of a spirit ever dying in the whole Bible. The Beast, a "collective spirit" comes out the abyss, because he "was", and then suffers a mortal head wound. How does a collective spirit die twice?

Your first sentence is true in the material sense. The rebellious fallen angels of ancient times were cast alive into the Abyss, where they remain until their being released at the 5th Trumpet. And remember, "they [have] a king over them, the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon." Rev. 9:11 So this spirit did not ever die, let alone twice, except in terms of being cut off from God = spiritual death.

And the Beast did not have a mortal head wound, as you erroneously state: one of his heads did. "I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded..." Big difference. That refers to the sixth head, the spiritual ruler of the Roman Empire, which empire -- and thus the authority of the head -- seemed to die in 476 AD, but was then later revived via the Holy Roman Empire.

On 9/26/2022 at 4:56 PM, AdHoc said:

Angels are heavenly beings. The Beast is earthly - a "Prince" of the people who destroyed the second Temple.

Angels who fall become beastly in nature. And so that is how they appear in prophetic vision. This is the reason that Satan appears as a serpent-dragon in vision, which reveals his spiritual nature.

I strongly suggest you and others reading this study out the full evidence I present in my 8-part blog series on the Beast, because it provides a great amount of scriptural and historical evidence that simply cannot all be covered here.

[Revelation Man]

26 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Clearly, then, the seven mountains/kings/Beast’s heads of Revelation 17 symbolize powerful spirits that rule over, and are personified in, earthly empires. Thus the “one is,” in John’s day, was the spiritual ruler of the Roman Empire. The ‘fallen five’ were the spirits of the earlier empires that had oppressed God’s people: the spirits of Egypt, Assyria, Chaldeo-Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece

You are pretty spot on here, I wouldn't go the 7 different spirits route, because its all one Demon named Apollyon that's over them all because its one region they all keep conquering, the Mediterranean Sea Region, Apollyon is called the Destroyer by Israel because his Job-1 was to destroy Israel. He was the Demon who resisted Michael for 21 days in Daniel ch. 10. He gets locked in the bottomless pit by God during the Church Age (the "Figurative" Beast's Mortal Wound) and then released at the first woe in time for the Last Beast/Anti-Christs 42 month reign of terror.

Thus he's of the 7, but is an 8th, he is the king of the bottomless  pit, BUT.......he is also over the 7 or of the 7. The rest looks pretty spot on, and I am a stickler for details, so the kings were actual men who were at the helm when they fell, just like each had a king (Mountain) at the helm when they arose. Basically, in a round about way, God gives us future insight into the Last Beast, he is the only king who both ARISES as a Mountain AND Falls, thus he alone is the Beast thus the Beast can be given the Number 666 (the number of a man). 

 

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Satan didn't give it to Nebuchadnezzar because he doesn't know the future so who gave "The Future of world events" unto Nebuchadnezzar if it wasn't God? 

Who said anything about Satan? You created something and then attribute it to others.

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course he wanted Daniel to have FAVOR with Nebuchadnezzar, and God gave ole Neb that dream, then God showed Daniel the Interpretation of the dream. So, not only did God want to protect them, of course He could have delivered the WHOLE ATION anytime He wanted, but God wanted Daniel to be REKNOWED in History, and to FORETELL the whole history of Israel and mankind's Great Kingdoms as a testimony to him serving God. So, he also may have did it to save many other Jews, Satan is a liar, he may have seduced Neb to kill off many Jews etc. etc. God knows more than we know, of course. The point us God wanted Daniel to have sway with Nebuchadnezzar just ag He gave Joseph sway in Egypt.

Any scriptures? God could not have delivered the Nation of Israel at any time. He would have violated His Word that their captivity would be seventy years.

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

God sees them all as filth tbh. God Bless

37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.(Da 2:37–38)

Sounds like "gold" - not filth. Gold is an element for (i) building the mercy seat and (ii) building the church. Maybe "heathen, infidels, and idol-worshipers", but "filth" --- I think not.

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Unscriptural, because you took this out of context. Here is the full sentence:

Rev. 17:9 The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, 10 and they are seven kings..."  So these cannot be literal mountains. So where does scripture explain this for us? Well, I this explained in Part 2 of my series on the Beast:

No. Verse 9 states unequivocally that the "heads" were the symbols and they were symbols of genuine hills. Verse 10 starts with a conjunction. The word "and" is (i) copulative, (ii) cumulative and (iii) sequential. The Holy Spirit is introducing AN-OTHER, additional meaning for the symbol. The kings then are literal too.

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Nonsense. The Church, the Body of Christ, is a collective spirit. We are one; just as Legion said of himself/themselves. Nations are collective spirits.

No. The Body of Christ is made of OUR BODIES

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? (1 Co 6:15a)

I think that we differ greatly in our handling of scripture.

[Revelation Man]

On 9/30/2022 at 5:18 PM, AdHoc said:

Who said anything about Satan? You created something and then attribute it to others.

On 9/30/2022 at 1:02 PM, Revelation Man said:

Look this is easy stuff, you realize I won the debate (SMILE) and you need a red herring, the Satan reference was a throw away line in the debate, OF COURSE ONLY God knows the future, that means I won the debate, because I kept it simple brother, sometime we overlook the simple things, you did in this case, ADMIT IT.... Smile. Only God could give him the dream that was my original point !! THINK NOW, you know I am right here. I boxed you in on an answer. Only God can show the future, you originally said the dream wasn't from God, but it was. Lets move on, there is no debating it. I feel like Muhammed Ali, "Float like a butterfly sting like a bee". OK, Maybe not. 

On 9/30/2022 at 5:18 PM, AdHoc said:

Any scriptures? God could not have delivered the Nation of Israel at any time. He would have violated His Word that their captivity would be seventy years.

That is a given, but He still could have, God can change his mind if He so pleases, He is God. He could have put the 7oth year of judgment off, just as he put the 70th week of judgment off. 

On 9/30/2022 at 5:18 PM, AdHoc said:

37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.(Da 2:37–38)

Sounds like "gold" - not filth. Gold is an element for (i) building the mercy seat and (ii) building the church. Maybe "heathen, infidels, and idol-worshipers", but "filth" --- I think not.

God sees us all as filthy rags, save for Jesus' blood, read Isaiah the prophet. We are sinners after all. God Bless

 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Revelation Man

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Look this is easy stuff, you realize I won the debate (SMILE) and you need a red herring, the Satan reference was a throw away line in the debate, OF COURSE ONLY God knows the future, that means I won the debate, because I kept it simple brother, sometime we overlook the simple things, you did in this case, ADMIT IT.... Smile. Only God could give him the dream that was my original point !! THINK NOW, you know I am right here. I boxed you in on an answer. Only God can show the future, you originally said the dream wasn't from God, but it was. Lets move on, there is no debating it. I feel like Muhammed Ali, "Float like a butterfly sting like a bee". OK, Maybe not. 

Here's my posting followed by your answer. If you can see a correlation I'd be happy to join in. From my point of view your answer had nothing to do with what I said. But if you feel you won a debate ... well, good win
 

Quote

 

AdHoc quote;

Each of us sees things and doesn't see other things. I am unable to match the grammar of these verses with your understanding. Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Chapter 2 is not obscure. There are FOUR powers that scripture says "rule all the earth". The fifth will be Christ's. They each have an element to designate the king and his political system. Historically, each world power since Egypt has had the same religious system.

I appreciate your freedom to interpret what you perceive, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

God bless

 

 

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Satan didn't give it to Nebuchadnezzar because he doesn't know the future so who gave "The Future of world events" unto Nebuchadnezzar if it wasn't God? 

But, if you're happy, let's move on (smiley).