Circumcision, Sabbath, clean meat and animal sacrifice offerings for sin atonement did not make people holy.

[JimmyB]

1 hour ago, Hobie_ said:

No, when you repent, you turn from sin and to Christ, not continue in it. This is Sanctification versus the Justification, and those who are saved will not be under the bondage of sin and full of iniquity when probation closes and Christ comes to reward every man according to his works. Either the fruits of the Holy Spirit and the reward of the just, or still under the devils hold and damnation of the unjust at the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 22:10-12

10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

It is at the core of Christianity...

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/erik-raymond/what-is-the-difference-between-justification-and-sanctification/

http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/justified/justification_and_sanctification.htm

https://www.gotquestions.org/justification-vs-sanctification.html

https://myfaithradio.com/2017/understanding-justification-sanctification-glorification/

You wrote "No, when you repent, you turn from sin and to Christ, not continue in it."  That simply isn't true.  Christians receive the Holy Spirit to be our guide, but we will continue to sin until we die.  You may not voluntarily continue to practice to practice sin, but you will sin.

 

1 John, written to Christians...

1 John 1:8-10, " If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." NRSVue

 

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."

 

1 John 5:16, "If anyone sees his fellow Christian committing a sin not resulting in death, he should ask, and God will grant life to the person who commits a sin not resulting in death. There is a sin resulting in death. I do not say that he should ask about that."

Clearly Christians will sin while in our mortal bodies.

 

You're not really saying that you never sin, are you?

Edited September 2, 2022 by JimmyB

[Hobie_]

21 hours ago, JimmyB said:

You wrote "No, when you repent, you turn from sin and to Christ, not continue in it."  That simply isn't true.  Christians receive the Holy Spirit to be our guide, but we will continue to sin until we die.  You may not voluntarily continue to practice to practice sin, but you will sin.

 

1 John, written to Christians...

1 John 1:8-10, " If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." NRSVue

 

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."

 

1 John 5:16, "If anyone sees his fellow Christian committing a sin not resulting in death, he should ask, and God will grant life to the person who commits a sin not resulting in death. There is a sin resulting in death. I do not say that he should ask about that."

Clearly Christians will sin while in our mortal bodies.

 

You're not really saying that you never sin, are you?

No, Christ has to be in you and you in Christ and He will cleanse you and you be transformed, that is sanctification. You put on Christs robe of righteousness, and are changed, Gods mercy and grace will not change you if you do not turn away from sin and to Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Many claim they are saved by grace and so can go on sinning. But once it has been revealed and you've seen the truth, if you then go on with sin and continue rejecting the Spirit, you are danger of taking the path that Judas took who Christ gave grace and revealed his sin so he could repent of what he was doing.

Judas thought he could control the outcome and influence Christ into what he thought things should be, but ended up doing the devils handiwork.....

Grace has its limits and to think we can receive the truth then continue to sin with no danger of damnation are absolutely wrong, it is a terrible thing to receive grace then still continue in sin and anger God who in His mercy gave grace.

Hebrews 10
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, 'Vengeance is mine; I will repay.' And again, 'The Lord will judge his people.' 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Sanctification is the path to be ready to go before God and does not leave you full of your sin and iniquity to meet your Saviour. But people just want to hear the easy path without even thinking about it, but there are consequences to that as Jesus made clear..

Matthew 10:14-15
14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

We know what happens when we bring them before the Lord and confess our sins....

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If the Christian does not confess them and repent from them......
Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Edited September 2, 2022 by Hobie_

[JimmyB]

16 hours ago, Hobie_ said:

No, Christ has to be in you and you in Christ and He will cleanse you and you be transformed, that is sanctification. You put on Christs robe of righteousness, and are changed, Gods mercy and grace will not change you if you do not turn away from sin and to Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Many claim they are saved by grace and so can go on sinning. But once it has been revealed and you've seen the truth, if you then go on with sin and continue rejecting the Spirit, you are danger of taking the path that Judas took who Christ gave grace and revealed his sin so he could repent of what he was doing.

Judas thought he could control the outcome and influence Christ into what he thought things should be, but ended up doing the devils handiwork.....

Grace has its limits and to think we can receive the truth then continue to sin with no danger of damnation are absolutely wrong, it is a terrible thing to receive grace then still continue in sin and anger God who in His mercy gave grace.

Hebrews 10
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, 'Vengeance is mine; I will repay.' And again, 'The Lord will judge his people.' 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Sanctification is the path to be ready to go before God and does not leave you full of your sin and iniquity to meet your Saviour. But people just want to hear the easy path without even thinking about it, but there are consequences to that as Jesus made clear..

Matthew 10:14-15
14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

We know what happens when we bring them before the Lord and confess our sins....

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If the Christian does not confess them and repent from them......
Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

You go on and on.  Are you claiming that you never sin?

 

Again...1 John 1:8-10, " If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." NRSVue

Did John, the great apostle, make a mistake when he wrote this?

Edited September 3, 2022 by JimmyB

[Hobie_]

On 9/3/2022 at 11:43 AM, JimmyB said:

You go on and on.  Are you claiming that you never sin?

 

Again...1 John 1:8-10, " If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." NRSVue

Did John, the great apostle, make a mistake when he wrote this?

I guess you will just have to hear it from Christ Himself...

Matthew 7:21-23

²¹ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

²² Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

²³ And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Hobie_

[JimmyB]

1 hour ago, Hobie_ said:

I guess you will just have to hear it from Christ Himself...

Matthew 7:21-23

²¹ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

²² Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

²³ And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You're changing the subject. 

I asked a simple question: are you claiming that you never sin?

[Hobie_]

On 9/6/2022 at 3:06 PM, JimmyB said:

You're changing the subject. 

I asked a simple question: are you claiming that you never sin?

I answered the question, but you seem to be having trouble with it. We all have sinned, but there is a way to be cleansed from sin, and this is the gospel in a nutshell...

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Hobie_

[Selah7]

On 7/31/2022 at 2:21 AM, R. Hartono said:

Ezekiel 10 ¹⁸ Then the glory of the Lord departed from over the threshold of the temple and stopped above the cherubim.

God had departed from the temple in Jerusalem because the Hebrew were rebellious people.

Ezekiel 12 ⁸ In the morning the word of the Lord came to me: ⁹ “Son of man, did not the Israelites, that rebellious people, ask you, ‘What are you doing?’

Circumcision, Sabbath, eating clean meat and offerings animal sacrifices for sin atonement did not and never make people holy.

Nobody becomes purified and holy by the sacrificed crucifixion of Lord Jesus as the Lamb of God either.

Luke 13:5.... unless you repent you will all perish.

Unless people repent and stop sinning how can mankind become holy ???

God therefore allowed destruction and genocide to Israel at 70AD and gentile kingdoms gangbang Jerusalem for almost 2000 years.

Greetings, Hartono…

Our old sinful past must be buried with Christ and we must be risen with Him to a new life.  When, by faith, you believe that God the Father raised Jesus Christ from the dead, you have been "made circumcised without hands." Today, this applies to both men and women; it is a circumcision of the heart. ❤️   Selah 

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.     - Romans 6:4

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.     - Colossians 2:11-12

Edited September 15, 2022 by Selah7
added scripture