The Eternal Kingdom Zechariah 14:8 New Jerusalem

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

I Disagree, the 7th Trump is the "Final Judgement" (The End) of Mortal Human Life On This Earth

(The Seventh Angel Sounded)

(The Time Of The Dead, That They Should Be Judged)

Revelation 11:15-18KJV

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Shalom, again, truth7t7.

Nope. The events in verse 18 are a SUMMARY of things to come now (at that time) that "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our LORD and of His Messiah."

In point of fact, since it takes the Messiah time from the Second Coming until He turns over the Kingdom to His Father (1 Cor. 15:20-28), throughout the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's Kingdom (Rev. 20:4-6), "the kingdoms of this world are becoming the kingdoms of our LORD and of His Messiah." It's NOT an instantaneous event! It's a PROCESS that happens throughout the Millennium, until AT THE END (the Great White Throne Judgment), death is finally conquered, when death and the grave are thrown into the Lake of Fire!

It doesn't just <POOF!> happen all of a sudden at Yeshua`s Second Coming!

[truth7t7]

18 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

Not true. As I said, "living waters" simply means "FLOWING waters." It's not the same as the "River of the water of life," in Revelation 22:1-2.

And, the REAL proof is in the size of the cities! The New Jerusalem is HUGE! It's bigger than anything we have today! It's also just as tall as it is long, 1,379.868686... miles HIGH!

This Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:8 is not even CLOSE to that size!

We Disagree

Living waters means the river of life 

Edited August 31, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

5 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, again, truth7t7.

Nope. The events in verse 18 are a SUMMARY of things to come now (at that time) that "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our LORD and of His Messiah."

In point of fact, since it takes the Messiah time from the Second Coming until He turns over the Kingdom to His Father (1 Cor. 15:20-28), throughout the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's Kingdom (Rev. 20:4-6), "the kingdoms of this world are becoming the kingdoms of our LORD and of His Messiah." It's NOT an instantaneous event! It's a PROCESS that happens throughout the Millennium, until AT THE END (the Great White Throne Judgment), death is finally conquered, when death and the grave are thrown into the Lake of Fire!

It doesn't just <POOF!> happen all of a sudden at Yeshua`s Second Coming!

We Disagree, Revelation 11:18 Is The Final Judgement, The End Of Mortal Life On Earth

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

We Disagree

Living waters means the river of life 

Shalom, truth7t7.

Frankly, it doesn't, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

We Disagree, Revelation 11:18 Is The Final Judgement, The End Of Mortal Life On Earth

Shalom, truth7t7.

LOL! Why will there be an "End of Mortal Life on Earth?!" One of the GREATEST things about our God is that He NEVER LOSES ANYTHING!!! Don't think for ONE MOMENT that He won't RE-CREATE what He originally Created!

Revelation 21 and 22 MIRROR Genesis 1 and 2!

The outline for the WHOLE Bible is ...

I. What ought to be - Genesis 1 and 2
II. What is - Genesis 3
III. How to get from what is to what ought to be - Genesis 4 to Revelation 22

Man was created for this earth, and this earth was created for man!

For all the life put on earth, God's MASTERPIECE was man! The earth (as originally created) was the IDEAL biosphere for the man!

Modern Christians put too much stock in "going to heaven." That's NOT in the Scriptures!

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

We Disagree

Living waters means the river of life 

Shalom, truth7t7.

For your information, I just can't let this go. As proof that "living water"doesn't mean "the River of the water of life," look up the following:

Leviticus 14:48-53 (KJV)

48 And if the priest shall come in, and look upon it, and, behold, the plague hath not spread in the house, after the house was plaistered: then the priest shall pronounce the house clean, because the plague is healed. 

49 And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop: 50 And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water (Hebrew: `al-mayim chayyiym = "over-waters living"): 51 And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water (Hebrew: uwVammayim hachayyiym = "and-in-the-waters the-living"), and sprinkle the house seven times: 52 And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water (Hebrew: uwVammayim hachayyiym = "and-in-the-waters the-living"), and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet: 53But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.

And, just for comparison, 

Zechariah 14:8 (KJV)

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters (Hebrew: mayim chayyiym = "waters living") shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

THE SAME PLURAL WORDS ARE USED IN BOTH LOCATIONS!

Note: It's NOT about the English translation! It's all about the Hebrew words that were translated into English!

Edited September 1, 2022 by Retrobyter
To add a point

[truth7t7]

5 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

For your information, I just can't let this go. As proof that "living water"doesn't mean "the River of the water of life," look up the following:

Leviticus 14:48-53 (KJV)

48 And if the priest shall come in, and look upon it, and, behold, the plague hath not spread in the house, after the house was plaistered: then the priest shall pronounce the house clean, because the plague is healed. 

49 And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop: 50 And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water (Hebrew: `al-mayim chayyiym = "over-waters living"): 51 And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water (Hebrew: uwVammayim hachayyiym = "and-in-the-waters the-living"), and sprinkle the house seven times: 52 And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water (Hebrew: uwVammayim hachayyiym = "and-in-the-waters the-living"), and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet: 53But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.

And, just for comparison, 

Zechariah 14:8 (KJV)

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters (Hebrew: mayim chayyiym = "waters living") shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

THE SAME PLURAL WORDS ARE USED IN BOTH LOCATIONS!

We Disagree

"Living Waters" Means The "River Of Life"

[Retrobyter]

2 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

We Disagree

"Living Waters" Means The "River Of Life"

Shalom, truth7t7.

You can say it all you want! That doesn't make it so!

In Revelation 22:1 we read,

Revelation 22:1 (KJV)

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal (Greek: potamon hudatos zooees lampron hoos chrustallon = "a-river of-water of-life, clear like crystal"), proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

There is a word for "river" in Hebrew; it's "nachal." It was NOT used in Zechariah 14.

[truth7t7]

15 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

You can say it all you want! That doesn't make it so!

In Revelation 22:1 we read,

Revelation 22:1 (KJV)

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal (Greek: potamon hudatos zooees lampron hoos chrustallon = "a-river of-water of-life, clear like crystal"), proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

There is a word for "river" in Hebrew; it's "nachal." It was NOT used in Zechariah 14.

The Day Of The Lord (The End)

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zechariah 14:1 & 12KJV

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, truth7t7.

Okay, let's push the envelope a little.

Zechariah 14 and Revelation 21-22 show us that there will be TWO such instances when water flows from God's throne and flows out of the city of Jerusalem.

The first such instance will be in Old Jerusalem when the waters flow out of the city, east and west, to the Dead Sea and to the Mediterranean Sea.

The second instance will be after God has made a New Earth with a New Sky ("Heaven"), the New Jerusalem has landed upon the New Earth, and the River of the Water of Life flows out of the throne, down the middle of the street, to the gates of the city, and out onto the New Earth.

For me, this is PROOF POSITIVE that the Kingdom during the Millennium is at a different time than that of the Kingdom upon the New Earth.

Many claim that "there will be a thousand-year reign of Christ," but that's not what the Scriptures say. Instead, we're told,

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

However, we're also told (from the perspective of the general resurrections),

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
24 (2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For HE (THE MESSIAH) MUST REIGN, TILL HE (GOD THE FATHER) HATH PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER HIS (THE MESSIAH'S) FEET. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he (God the Father) hath put all things under his (the Messiah's) feet. [But when he saith, "all things are put under him," it is manifest that he (God the Father) is excepted, which did put all things under him (the Messiah, the Son of God).]

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him (the Messiah, the Son of God), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (God the Father) that put all things under him (the Messiah, the Son of God), that God (the Father) may be all in all.

So, there are TWO reigns, the reign of the Messiah ON BEHALF OF God the Father (during the Millennium), and the reign of God the Father HIMSELF (in the Eternal State, while Yeshua` goes on reigning over the house of Jacob).

This fits with the statement made in explanation of the parable of the Wheat and Tares: 

First, it's a parable about the "Kingdom of heaven" or the "Kingdom from the sky."

Then, Yeshua` said,

Matthew 13:41-43 (KJV)

41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather OUT OF HIS (THE MESSIAH'S) KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire (the Great White Throne Judgment and the Lake of Fire and Sulfur): there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."