WHERE does the SPIRITUAL BODY go when the flesh dies? UP or down

[tim_from_pa]

11 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Sorry that I have to say that...and I still have to say something about Job...they were not the disciples of Jesus Christ...and Jesus caution them to only teach what they learned from him and the Holy Spirit...and it is obvious that there is nothing in their teachings but to the contrary it is..about some statements in ecclesiastes and in Job.

John 1:11,12 AND 13

¹¹ He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

¹² But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

¹³ Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The verse 13, and other similar verses that say that man is born from above from the Spirit of God in Jesus Christ.

These scriptures are shouting allowed that unless Jesus died on the Cross this could not happen and had not happened before the death of Jesus on the Cross, and it is impossible to happen without the blood of Jesus Christ, without Jesus who shed his blood for the forgiveness of our sins...

That's why Jesus and his disciples did not endorsed the comments in ecclesiastes, because man can only be born from above from the Spirit of God after Jesus Christ was crucified and died on the Cross...

My point exactly.  Ecclesiastes is the fate of a man in the flesh who did not know Christ.  Unless one is born of the Spirit there is no eternal life.  He just dies like the rest of the animals.  With the Spirit we are raised to life eternal as Jesus was.  The Spirit was foreshadowed by the feast of Weeks aka Pentecost. Before then the Spirit was not given to mankind although may have influenced him along side of him such as the patriarchs, prophets, some Kings and so forth. Passover, Unleavened Bread and Weeks was fulfilled at the first coming at those appropriate times.  The latter feasts did not occur yet, and foreshadow events here at the Second coming in the future.  

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

My point exactly.  Ecclesiastes is the fate of a man in the flesh who did not know Christ.  Unless one is born of the Spirit there is no eternal life.  He just dies like the rest of the animals.  With the Spirit we are raised to life eternal as Jesus was.  The Spirit was foreshadowed by the feast of Weeks aka Pentecost. Before then the Spirit was not given to mankind although may have influenced him along side of him such as the patriarchs, prophets, some Kings and so forth. Passover, Unleavened Bread and Weeks was fulfilled at the first coming at those appropriate times.  The latter feasts did not occur yet, and foreshadow events here at the Second coming in the future.  

There are a few things that are not easy to day, and which at the same time are very simple.. 

In Genesis, God breath Life into Adam, this is it, Adam is alive now...and then he made Eve in a different way, he made her out of Adam and Eve inherited her Life from Adam. 

God did not breath Life into Eve in the same way as he did with Adam, and he did not breath Life later on to their children which inherited from Adam what he had at the time of their conception...that's how they got their life from the seed of Adam, who at that time he was in death and not in the Life of God. It's not God who gave Life to his children it is Adam's seed who fertilizes Eve's ovary...we may say it is God who made that possible because he created male and female and not only for man but also for the animals.

But at the same time God made the distinction between man and animal...when he made man in his image and epitomized that by breathing Life into Adam, and made him Alive in that way...and he did not abaddon him in the instincts that he put in him, but he kept him company and he taught him, like he was his mother. 

The Serpent was waiting to deceive Adam and Eve the first couple, not some other animal....

The Serpent never wanted to give death to Adam at the time of his disobedience when he took and ate from the tree of death, the family tree of death...Adam from that time on he was part of the family tree of death,  he became a tree of death himself...

The Serpent wanted Adam and Eve to live, and he told them that, that when they eat from the tree of death they will not died...they will continue to live with knew horizon opening ahead of them...

The Devil wanted them to live and reproduce and have children. When Eve got pregnant someone else besides them and God and the Angels were very excited and were waiting in a state of anxiety besides them, and that was the Devil, rubbing his hands together as if he wants to hold the new born and welcome him into the world, his world, because sooner or later when the new arrival in the world dies, he will be there waiting to take him to his world...

By DEFAULT when the Devil took Adam and Eve at the same time he took their off springs...because Adam was made into a tree of death producing the same fruit as he was....the fruit from him also had the seed of death in him, and became also trees of death...

With the exception of Abraham whom God clean his seed...and set him apart from the rest of the dead trees...

Abraham was the first man to be alive to God after his death, because he was alive to God while he lived, only they had to be apart from each other, they could not be together...

And God promised to Abraham that the day will come when he will fix all those things that needs to be fix so they can be together forever to where he is, and not to where Abraham went after his death...

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[AdHoc]

13 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You said something wonderful, and this is the part in your post that says that Jesus was made in everything just like his brothers...this is the same thing Moses said to the people... and why they were not surprised, when he said that right after the Covenant of Sinai....

Deuteronomy 18:15  in 

15. The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

And in verse 18 and 19, the Lord spoke these words to Moses :

deuteronomy 18-19 

18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

A man led us unto death, and a man led us unto Life...

in Genesis 3: what beautiful words God spoke when he said to the Serpent "the seed of the woman will crush your head". 

God declared that he is not going to create another man, just the way he created the first man Adam...

A man who will not have the death of Adam in him...This is another Adam. 

But this is what he said: that the new Adam, or the next Adam, or the Adam who will crush your head will be born from a woman...but in their presence he said: Adam or any other descendants from Adam will have nothing to do with that...

The Serpent believe that this will come to pass and he had been waiting and preparing himself for thousands years for that moment, till the time of the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem from the people, from his own people. As in John 1:

¹¹ He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

¹² But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

¹³ Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

...He came to his own, and his own recieved him not, but to those who received him....to them he gave the power to become the sons of God....even to them that believe in his name...

 

A very nice posting brother. I was touched by your view that God did not create a new species to crush the head of the serpent. He used the seed of the woman who came out of Adam. This He can do because it is not the woman who passes on Adam's sin. It is "THE MAN" who passes the sin-nature (Rom.5:12, 15 & 17). Jesus could be "Seed of the WO-man". He just could not be seed of the man. And this He was not (Matt.1:18, Lk.1:35).

[Your closest friendnt]

8 hours ago, AdHoc said:

A very nice posting brother. I was touched by your view that God did not create a new species to crush the head of the serpent. He used the seed of the woman who came out of Adam. This He can do because it is not the woman who passes on Adam's sin. It is "THE MAN" who passes the sin-nature (Rom.5:12, 15 & 17). Jesus could be "Seed of the WO-man". He just could not be seed of the man. And this He was not (Matt.1:18, Lk.1:35).

Amazing!

[DeighAnn]

On 8/16/2022 at 3:30 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

This one of the most important questions.

Jesus teach the people, the people at hand were the Jews and Pharisees and other groups or other Israelites devotees to the Law of Moses. 

Those people study the books in the bible and the prophets and also Genesis...

From Genesis they learned about Adam...they knew that one day Adam disobeyed God and Adam fall from Life unto Death....

Adam inherited death and he pass death unto his children children to all mankind till the death of Jesus Christ...

That time something happened, death was defeated by Jesus Christ, and Death let go of anyone who he had hold under the disobedience of Adam, everyone who was held by him was set free...

Jesus Christ preached the Gospel to them right there where they were. Those who believe in Jesus Christ in what he preached to them, those who recieved him and believe in his word and that he is from God were at that time in Jesus Christ..

Death and Hades were disarmed, Jesus took their Keys from them.

What they were doing before they cannot do it anymore...

From that time on Jesus Christ is in charge of everything, everyone at the time of his death has to be process by Jesus Christ...he has to appear before Jesus Christ and be Judged according to his faith in him first, everyone who is found to have the faith of Jesus Christ in his heart...is on the way to Heaven. His works and his service to Jesus Christ are recognized and are taken into consideration for his Heavenly Life. 

Every one who deny or who refused to believe Jesus Christ and did not repent from his refusal to believe is taken to Hades and his works are taken and will be taken into consideration for his Life in Hades and for his placement in that place. And for what other reasons God has appointed everything regarding these matters...

One thing is to hold into remembrance is that at the Cross death was defeated, Jesus Christ stripped Death and Hades from their authority to hold the people when they died because of the inherited death from Adam upon them..at that time death was lifted up from all the people of the world which had died from the beginning including Adam till the time of Jesus Christ on the Cross...

Also the death Inheritance from Adam was lifted up from everyone who lived at that time and their children's children...no one from that time on was in Adam's death Inheritance...

At the time when Death and Hades were defeated, the scripture was fulfilled.

Death and Hades gave up all the dead in them, the sea gave up all the dead in it, to be Judged by Jesus Chris.

About Abraham whom the Lord God Almighty had given him his own Inheritance after death and not only for him but also for his children and whom God had set aside from the rest of the world in Life and in death....

Because God was their God while they lived and continued to be their God after they died...

They at the time of their death were gathered to Abraham in a separated place in the place of the dead, separated from the other dead of the world, because they were God's children in Life and in death, they continue to be God's children in Abraham after they died...

This is why they were alive to God because they were still God's children after their death....them down there and the Lord their God not with them but they were his children and he was their God in this format.. 

For that reason Hades was off limits to the place where Abraham and his children were waiting for Jesus Christ to descend to them and to give them of his Life and to make them co-heirs together with him of Heaven...

Heaven is another realm is not the sky, as some erroneously say, because the sky and the Synpan (in Greek) aka universe are created things, and Heaven was existed before the Creation in Genesis. 

The point is, when Abraham died Hades never touch him he was not there to take him to his place and hold him together with the rest of the people of the world because of Adam.

Abraham was the Patriarch of God's people and God had given Abraham his own in Inheritance after death and for his people, so at the time of his death God made the arraignment for him to go to the place where he and his children will wait for Jesus Christ to take them to Heaven, the first fruits, the first ones to receive the eternal Life of Jesus Christ..

Jesus said that Abraham knew of that day and he rejoiced...John the Baptist was also their to prepare the people for the coming of Jesus Christ.  

Thank you for the response.

We are in general agreement, with a few exceptions.  But what I didn't see was when the natural body dies,  what you believe happens to the spiritual one and what happens then.  

[DeighAnn]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:24 AM, Cntrysner said:

Flesh will be raised to inherit the earthly kingdom of promise as Jesus was raised from the dead in the flesh.  
To ascend to be with Christ in glory we will need a spiritual body for no flesh will glory in God's presence. We in the body of Christ with a heavenly inheritance will be transfigured as Christ was and ascend to be where He is and our flesh will return to the dust from which it came.

Christ ascended and offered His bloodless body as a living sacrifice to be burned on the heavenly altar of God the Father and from the ashes of His sinless sacrifice the Holy Spirit descended. 

Thank you for the response.  

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
 

How does  'Flesh will be raised'  not conflict with 'thou sowest NOT that body that shall be'?  I don't think I am understanding what you are saying here.  Could you explain that for me?  Thank you.  

[DeighAnn]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:18 AM, DPMartin said:

that which is of God remains with God, that which is of earth remains in the earth. that said Jesus says nothing is in heaven that isn't from Heaven

 

Joh_3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

note Jesus says He (son of man) is in heaven yet, He is in the flesh when He says it.

 

and it seems you don't know where heaven is:

Luk 17:20  And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 
Luk 17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 

 

so, seeing the Holy Spirit is of God that is in Heaven and one who is born again has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (the Presence of God) who is in Heaven, then......................... 

Why does it seem I don't know where heaven is?  I understand how the Spirit dwells within me and all that goes with that but are you saying that GODS THRONE and the elders and the living beasts and the altar and all the souls under it and all of that are within me?   I am not following why you don't think I know where heaven is.  I hope you will explain.  And I missed your answer as to where the spiritual body goes at the death of the natural one.   Thank you for the response

[DeighAnn]

On 8/17/2022 at 4:01 PM, tim_from_pa said:

The spirit goes back to God who gave it according to Ecclesiastes.  That's not your conscious being, but reference to life that makes who you are that God gave (this same spirit makes us God conscious).  He remembers who you were and can raise you as a new creation in the resurrection.  Like the animals, we go into the ground.  We all die and remember nothing any longer (Ecclesiastes 9:5).  You are unconscious until the resurrection which will be for all people, both righteous and wicked. I always say that the dead do not miss us.  We miss those who died.  Their next conscious moment is "absent from the body and present with the Lord". It's like a time machine where they instantly are transported to end times.  They may wake up surprised saying, "I just died.  How is it that everyone I knew is also here with me?" God's gift is to grant eternal life to those who believe.  Only God is inherently immortal.  Man does not have an immortal soul. He is subject to death.

Thank you for the response.  I thought we were made new creatures when we were born again.  Are you saying you don't believe that happens until the dead are resurrected?  

The spirit goes back to God.  Does that mean you believe they are raised in the spiritual body?  
 

[tim_from_pa]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Thank you for the response.  I thought we were made new creatures when we were born again.  Are you saying you don't believe that happens until the dead are resurrected?  

The spirit goes back to God.  Does that mean you believe they are raised in the spiritual body?  
 

Yes, but it's more a matter of semantics. We are begotten and then born (as Jesus was) at the resurrection.  The physical analogy is we are still in embryo, and are still sons of God, but are fully glorified at the resurrection.  Those in Christ need not fear the second death because our old man has died off and the Spirit raises us as with Jesus immortal. This is why Jesus is called the firstborn amongst many brethren. That happened at the resurrection according to the bible.  The wicked are raised physically (as many resurrections in the bible show such a resurrection) and can be burnt up.  I often say not to confuse resurrection with eternal life.  Resurrection merely means bringing back to life again, whether it's for the righteous or the wicked.

I was listening to Christian radio last night and the lady commentator said that this world is not our home; it's wherever Jesus is and we have a better place in heaven.  She is half right on the first part as we are with Jesus, but Jesus will come back to earth and our place (and the purpose of the church) is to rule and reign with Jesus Christ thus teaching the remaining world the ways of righteousness-- this is what the Kings and priests did in the physical realm of Israel as this foreshadowed this time as well (c.f. Revelation 1:6).   So our place is here, and after that will be a new heaven and earth (what I believe is the 3rd earth age).  It the final stage where heaven actually comes to earth, the dwelling place of mankind and all will be restored the way it was supposed to be back in the garden days. Now don't get me wrong, we will have access to heaven and all of space, perhaps as renovators ourselves, but Jerusalem and the Earth is the capital so-to-speak. Talk about a geocentric theory.  That's what they thought, but not in the sense where everything goes around us, but rather just the place where we are headquartered.

[enoob57]

Ascension upward on a ball is no help but God has directed us in this problem by Lucifers boast
Isaiah 14:13 (KJV)

[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: