Genesis 2:11 The Garden of Eden's Location

[Jayne]

On 10/24/2022 at 6:43 PM, JohnR7 said:

 There have actually been six worldwide extinctions when God used 10% of the population to repopulate the earth. This is why we see the word: replenish in Genesis. 

John, I hope you don't mind me asking where on earth do you get this stuff.

I know you place science above the Bible and you will just tell me to "go and read a high school science book" as you have told many others.

But I just have to call you out on this one.

I taught science for many years and this is as foreign to me as a six-foot-tall grasshopper.

Could you PLEASE cite your scientific source that proves that God has used six small populations to repopulate the earth after six mass extinctions?  You say things  like this but cannot and will not prove them or cite sources!

[JohnR7]

53 minutes ago, Jayne said:

John, I hope you don't mind me asking where on earth do you get this stuff.

Most of what I communicate here are keyword you can use on Google. This is what you will find:

The 'Big Five' mass extinctions

• End Ordovician (444 million years ago; mya)
• Late Devonian (360 mya)
• End Permian (250 mya)
• End Triassic (200 mya) – many people mistake this as the event that killed off the dinosaurs. ...
• End Cretaceous (65 mya) – the event that killed off the dinosaurs.

I include the extinction that took place at the Holocene as six. This is when Saber Tooth Tigers and Wholly Mammoths went extinct. 

The La Brea Tar Pits in California is the place to go if you want to do a study on this most recent extinction.  There is something called remnant theology in the Bible. Science talks about how 10% or a remnant repopulates the earth after a mass extinction. 

According to the Book of Isaiah, the "remnant" (Hebrew: שְׁאָר, romanized: sh'ár) is a small group of Israelites who will survive the invasion of the Assyrian army under Tiglath-Pileser III (Isaiah 10:20–22).

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

I know you place science above the Bible

I do not place science above the Bible. It is a method I use to understand the Bible. We have to interpret and translate the Bible. Even the Hebrew Bible has been modified before we even receive it. In the original Bible, there is no structure. There are no sentences, paragraphs or chapter. The Bible is like a song. Only the words are written down. The notes are a part of the oral tradition and were not written down. 

 

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

You say things  like this but cannot and will not prove them or cite sources!

I always have sources. I am not here to represent myself or my opinions. I am here to try and find the true meaning of the Bible for our generation. Even as we enter the kingdom age and people come to a deeper better understanding. 

Each and every Hebrew letter has a symbolic meaning. If we study the letters, then we can understand the meaning of a word in the Bible. This is why I do not like to use words that are not in the Bible. 

There is also a mathematical  precision to the Bible. Every letter has a number value.  Mt son has a degree in Computer Engineering, so he has helped me to understand this type of math. I prefer physics and geometry. Esp as a builder and carpenter. But he likes formulas, and he can come up with a formula to establish a lot of things I talk about. For example, I talk about the spin down rate of the earth and the length of the day. We all know a day is not exactly 24 hours. The Bible refers to a "Perfect Day". My son can give us a formula that will help us to easily figure out when the perfect 24 hour day well be. 

 

[Jayne]

33 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

I always have sources. I am not here to represent myself or my opinions. I am here to try and find the true meaning of the Bible for our generation.

 

You always have sources?  You just made three posts and never gave me one.  You just told me I could Google it.

You say that you are here to try to find the true meaning of the Bible for our generation?

I don't see it.  I will just have to move on from this conversation.

[Retrobyter]

On 10/24/2022 at 3:19 AM, Who me said:

Traditions unless confirmed by the bible are valueless. 

No man made object would survive a global flood.

Shalom, Who me.

(And @JohnR7, you should read this, too.)

Traditions can be based upon fact, just as the Talmud (the oral Tradition) was supplemental to the Tanakh (the written Bible). Some things were not written down in the Tanakh (the OT); so, to supplement facts that people who were eye-witnesses knew, they recorded the Talmud from person to person to REMEMBER what was known.

To say "No man made object would survive a global flood" is an ASSUMPTION! NOBODY knew whether the Great Pyramid did or did not survive the Flood, because NOBODY reported the matter, EXCEPT in verbal traditions passed on from father to son! Some believed that it was built or at least designed by Chanokh ("Enoch") before the Flood, who called his son's name "Metushelach" ("Methuselah"), which means "from/after the man, a sword." IN THE YEAR Metushelach died, the Flood came!

The oral tradition says that Adam warned that there would be two great destructions, one of water and one of fire. Kefa ("Peter") concurs on this oral tradition in what he was told to write in 2 Peter 3:

2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying,

"Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation (uniformitarianism)."

5 For this they WILLINGLY are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old (Genesis 1:6-8), and the earth standing out of the water (Genesis 1:9-10) and in the water (Genesis 1:6-7) 6 Whereby the world that then was, being OVERFLOWED WITH WATER, perished (Genesis 7-8): 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, RESERVED UNTO FIRE against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men (Revelation 20:7-15).

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day (Revelation 20:1-7). 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up (Revelation 20:9).

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness (Revelation 21:1-4).

So, "the Flood and the Fire" part is verified by Genesis 1, 7, 8 and Revelation 20 and 21, and 2 Peter 3:3-13. So, the rest is possible, too. 

On 10/24/2022 at 3:19 AM, Who me said:

Clearly you have not learnt anything from the history of exploration.

Star system will give one the longitude  of a place, but to find the latitude,  one needs a very, very accurate  way of determining the time at one's base as well as where one is.

Well, longitude is determined by star positions east and west and at the zenith; this is determined by sextant calculating right ascension based upon the calendar time of the year. Latitude is determined by the declenation of known stars north and south.

On 10/24/2022 at 3:19 AM, Who me said:

Atheists  struggle  with the concept of an ark preserving  all life forms; to start saying that Noah and [three] sons [and their wives] also preserved the knowledge from the pre flood world is going to blow there minds.

Perhaps, but remember the things that Erich von Däniken found and wrote about in his books, Chariots of the Gods? (1968) and History Is Wrong (2007). The archaeology and the scientific conclusions formed from that archaeology is fascinating, even if his conclusions of their origins were in error.

There WERE items that looked like the remains of Leyden-jar-like electric batteries, and toys shaped like airplanes! But he "conveniently" neglected the antediluvian society before the Flood, concluding these devices came from aliens from space.

When you have a race of intelligent men (and women) living in an idyllic environment for hundreds of years, they were BOUND to come up with inventions we know nothing about today! Their society lasted for 1,710 years (based on Genesis 5 and Noach's age at the time of the Flood) before the Flood destroyed it. How WERE the pyramids constructed, anyway? There are theories, but no one has found the definitive truth of their construction!

On 10/24/2022 at 3:19 AM, Who me said:

Remember, following  the flood [4] men would be working all the hours from sunrise to sunset simply to survive.

Yes, at first, but that is why they chose to congregate in cities like Bavel (Babel or Babylon), and pool their resources and knowledge and ingenuity! It was safer (now living in a world with carnivores, preditors, and scavengers) and they could work together on group projects (such as the ziggurat they were building in Bavel).

Genesis 10 talks about the spread of the people forming nations of their own after the Flood and this occurred before Bavel was formed. One of Ham's sons, Mizraim, forged the nation of Egypt after the Flood! (Genesis 10:6, 13)

It's important to read the Genesis account with faith in God to record what happened accurately and not to white-wash it as some "spiritual text" that means entirely something different than what it was written to mean! It's NOT just some figurative speech that one should minimize and ignore, in favor of man's theory of Evolution!

Edited October 27, 2022 by Retrobyter
to include JohnR7 in this post's address

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

NOBODY knew whether the Great Pyramid did or did not survive the Flood,

The pyramid's in Egypt and the Ziggurats in Babylon were built after the flood of Noah. Saddam tried to rebuild them, but the Bible tells us they will never be rebuilt. The main thing is, this is where language was confused. God did this to divide the people, and we can ONLY be united in Him. 

Genesis 11:7

The Tower of Babel
…6And the LORD said, “If they have begun to do this as one people speaking the same language, then nothing they devise will be beyond them. 7Come, let Us go down and confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” 8So the LORD scattered them from there over the face of all the earth, and they stopped building the city.…

Edited October 27, 2022 by JohnR7

[JohnR7]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

To say "No man made object would survive a global flood" is an ASSUMPTION!

With the drought in Iraq the Euphrates river is starting to dry up and ancient archeology sites are starting to emerge. Now we can see where the people lived that we read about in the Bible. Up until now it was assumed that everything was destoyed in the flood. 

 

[JohnR7]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

There WERE items that looked like the remains of Leyden-jar-like electric batteries,

They were able to electroplate gold back then. Although, it is a difficult and expensive process. The temple was gold-plated as the Dome is gold-plated today. The arch in Rome records how the temple was taken to Rome and used in the construction of the coliseum there. 

 

[JohnR7]