Understanding the Prophetic Word

[douggg]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Luke 21:25-28 (KJV)

25 "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

I've heard songs that employ these words, speaking about the Rapture!

I agree that verse Luke 21:28 is referring to the rapture.     In Matthew 24:15-31, Jesus expanded on those verses of Luke 21:25-27, to include the great tribulation, as when to look up our redemption draws near.

Jesus gave Christians the parable of the fig tree generation, in order to know what generation by observing the fig tree in its first budding.    The key though is to know what the fig tree represents.     Since Jesus cursed a fig tree beside the road before entering Jerusalem, knowing that he would be rejected, and the kingdom of God taken from that generation - to be given to a future generation of the nation Israel - it can be concluded that the fig tree is Jerusalem.

1967 + 70 years for a generation = 2037 no later than that Jesus will return in power and great glory.

My rapture timing view is a window between today and the beginning of the Day of Lord. The Day of the Lord triggered by the Antichrist going in to the temple committing the transgression of desolation ToD act.   Which that act will also end the peace and safety delusion of the false messianic age (on chart 2).

I show these two charts a lot, because with just these two, a person can understand a lot about the events of the 7 year 70th week.     It takes two charts because only one chart would be too congested with information.

The first chart shows all of the time-term components given in Revelation.  i.e the 1260 days, the 3 1/2 days, the 42 months, the time/times/half time, the war in the 2nd heaven (undisclosed) time.

The second chart shows the great tribulation and the tribulation of those days of Matthew 24.

At present, I don't know for certain who the Antichrist person is (although I have my suspensions that it may be Zelensky), nor who the ten leaders are that he will be over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

Edited September 16, 2022 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:24 PM, tatwo said:

Thank you Keras, same to you,

I have never bought into the pre-tribulation rapture or any rapture as it is popularly thought of. To do so does great harm to the purity of the Gospel reality…by showing a complete unawareness of the original intention of the Creator to have a man on the earth in His Image and likeness with the character and nature of Christ. This “man” is the completed intention of God…in Christ…Head & Body…on earth…for a time.

The Body under the loving care and tutelage of its Head for 2000 years…serving the same purpose as Christ in His earthly journey…to reconcile man to God and to destroy the works of the devil. Those who measure up to the full stature of the Head…they know what their called too…even in the face of death. 

The importance of that is…that the biggest reason for the body of Christ to be on the earth…is…to put on display the glory of our God in the man “Christ.” He is the measured, perfected standard of God, the rod of Iron, to bear…on sin and darkness…in the form of correction and judgment…here on earth. 

In terms of “tribulation”…consider the below

• As I survey the global situation…things look really bad and what’s more….it is continuing to get worse beginning in the near future and beyond.
• If we got into the seriousness of the numbers of people who suffered are suffering and have died…and how…because of the pandemic globally, it is disturbing.
• Consider that the numbers of those starving to death, and those who only have access to limited amounts of food and go to bed hungry every night…have nearly doubled this year.
• Much if not all of Europe is dealing with an energy crisis going into winter. This is brewing up a nasty economic crisis for them pretty much right now.
• China is experiencing massive manufacturing and production drops due to covid lockdowns and shipping stoppages…like just about everywhere in the world right now.
• Several nations are headed straight towards economic crises. The U.K, Europe, Japan, China & the U.S. are included…this is completely contrary to what the main stream media is saying.
• The weather is extremely severe in so many places…it is displacing never before seen numbers of people with exceptional floods and draughts.
• The weather has also had a dramatic effect on things yielding unheard of crop losses and damage…and there is an all-out attack on just about any type of “meat” production.
• The beast is attempting to bring the “New Normal” into view as the “Great Reset.”
• The book of Revelation talks about all of this coming to earth. 

We are looking at the potential for total economic destruction…globally…and it’s likely to begin much sooner than we are comfortable with…there is so much more…very few are even aware of it…the media is hiding it. Whenever there is economic collapse…things go very badly for those peoples and nations. We are headed to a chaos of biblical proportions here…with the beasts goal of death and slavery for all of humanity and most are not prepared.

Woa…to the dwellers of the earth…to those who dwell in the heavens even here on earth…we overcome!

The false church is not prepared…their going to heaven in the rapture…Keras your word…” they will either renounce God for not doing what they expected, or will realize their error and place their trust on the Lord for His protection thru it all”  is a good word…thank you.

 

Tatwo…:)

You are allowed to be wrong, as are they, but you will understand you are wrong when you are either raptured or left, because 50 percent of the ch8rch will be left on earth. So, its not for me to say who will be taken and who will be left. If I fall into sin I may be left, but I am not planning on that. 

I actually understand all of these end tine things and have been called unto it, I destroy all of those mid and post trib positions, but I find the pride of men stope men from seeing a light many times. It is what it is.

[Retrobyter]

5 minutes ago, douggg said:

I agree that verse Luke 21:28 is referring to the rapture.     In Matthew 24:15-31, Jesus expanded on those verses of Luke 21:25-27, to include the great tribulation, as when to look up our redemption draws near.

Jesus gave Christians the parable of the fig tree generation, in order to know what generation by observing the fig tree in its first budding.    The key though is to know what the fig tree represents.     Since Jesus cursed a fig tree beside the road before entering Jerusalem, knowing that he would be rejected, and the kingdom of God taken from that generation - to be given to a future generation of the nation Israel - it can be concluded that the fig tree is Jerusalem.

1967 + 70 years for a generation = 2037 no later than that Jesus will return in power and great glory.

My rapture timing view is a window between today and the beginning of the Day of Lord. The Day of the Lord triggered by the Antichrist going in to the temple committing the transgression of desolation ToD act.

I show these two charts a lot, because with just these two, a person can understand a lot about the events of the 7 year 70th week.     It takes two charts because only one chart would be too congested with information.

The first chart shows all of the time-term components given in Revelation.  i.e the 1260 days, the 3 1/2, the 42 months, the time/times/half time, the war in the 2nd heaven (undisclosed) time.

The second chart shows the great tribulation and the tribulation of those days of Matthew 24.

At present, I don't know for certain who the Antichrist person is (although I have my suspensions that it may be Zelensky), nor who the ten leaders are that he will be over.

 

 

 

 

    

Shalom, douggg.

It's not a good idea to say, "1967 + 70 years for a generation = 2037 no later than that Jesus will return in power and great glory." My father used to preach that kind of thing over and over with different dates as the dates passed. I remember him jumping on the 1988 bandwagon! Now, he's passed away, too. He was always confident that the Lord would return in his lifetime. It's just not wise to set any dates. I think it's part of God's humor to allow these dates to pass with unfulfilled prophecy.

Remember Harold Camping and his predictions of 1994 and later 2015? There have been at least 242 date setters in history! Check out Bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm for a list! If one sets a date for Christ's return, even a range with a terminating date, he or she has set himself or herself up for embarrassment. (Don't worry; Jerry Falwell is in the list, too!) I remember looking at arguments for Henry Kissinger being the Antichrist, and all sorts of weird ideas associated with "666!"

[douggg]

4 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, douggg.

It's not a good idea to say, "1967 + 70 years for a generation = 2037 no later than that Jesus will return in power and great glory." My father used to preach that kind of thing over and over with different dates as the dates passed. I remember him jumping on the 1988 bandwagon! Now, he's passed away, too. He was always confident that the Lord would return in his lifetime. It's just not wise to set any dates. I think it's part of God's humor to allow these dates to pass with unfulfilled prophecy.

Remember Harold Camping and his predictions of 1994 and later 2015? There have been at least 242 date setters in history! Check out Bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm for a list! If one sets a date for Christ's return, even a range with a terminating date, he or she has set himself or herself up for embarrassment. (Don't worry; Jerry Falwell is in the list, too!) I remember looking at arguments for Henry Kissinger being the Antichrist, and all sorts of weird ideas associated with "666!"

I hear you.    1948 looked like a good base year based on Israel being the fig tree, and Jack Van Impe was projecting 2018 with the 7 years beginning in 2011.    He was also saying that Juan Carlos of Spain was the Antichrist.   

Well, 2011 came and went, and no confirming of the covenant for 7 years.    As well as 2018.

I also remember, like you, about Henry Kissinger being said to be the Antichrist.

I can only speak for myself, but I understand a lot more about than I did back then.    Mostly, back then I was influenced by popular commentators like Jack Van Impe and others.   

I never listen to any of them any more because for one thing most are off on what the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years is.      All of them are going to say a peace treaty involving Israel.     Which it is not, but a big speech from the temple mount by the Antichrist following Gog/Magog, at which time he will have the law read to nation of Israel- a requirement by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, to be done on a  7 year cycle.

Jesus did give the parable of the fig tree generation for a reason.   And in spite of past failures by others, I am sticking with my current belief of not later than 2037.      And the 7 years beginning not later than the end of 2030.

One thing I don't do on any of my charts is to give calendar dates - because there is no way of knowing those.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tatwo]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:46 AM, Keras said:

Here are some of the theories, ideas and fanciful notions that abound today:
1/ The Return of Jesus is the next event. This is totally refuted by 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

I agree with you here on this Keras…however humor me as I dive into the 2 Thessalonians part and unpack it just a bit. This will begin to throw down the false argument of the false church regarding this Idea of "Pre-Trib Rapture" and stir the outer court a bit...just watch.

It is essential to think of the fullness of Christ as “Head & Body - One” on earth and in heaven at the same time…here’s why…it’s truth…it is how we gain more clear understanding as to what is happening and what is about to happen in terms of the kingdom of God on earth…which is where the revelation of Christ is found, understood and lived out obediently today in the lives of the Sons of God on the earth.

Consider this…from 2 Thessalonians 2? 

“Unless the apostasy comes first”…Apostasy… or a departure from the faith…you have to have been a part of something in order to depart or fall away from it.

Certainly this is the false church being measured (correction and judgment) by Christ the “Rod” and found rebellious and unbelieving…its happening now…the outer court is the false church that is apostatizing (Rev 11:1 & Rev 12:6 the woman...of which Israel is a type). Those who did not receive the love of the truth. (Rev. 11:2)

Think about this…as this takes place…the “apostasy”… isn’t the man of lawlessness being revealed…but to whom? The Body of Christ on the earth…I suggest. The simplest description of “lawlessness” I can think of is…he changes the truth into a lie…deception…those who are believing a lie…hence the falling away. The Lord Yahshua will simply cause them live in delusion.

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work… (2 Thessalonians 2:7a). 

That is why the evil one, the lawless one, will speak blasphemous things and great things. The great things are the Scriptures; the blasphemous things are the ways he uses the Scripture as a weapon.  

Religious people will have no way of escaping this entrapment. He will trap you if you are just religious. That is why the Scriptures say over and over and over again, “In the last days,” the Lord Yahshua Himself saying, “take heed that no one deceives you.”  

Deception is the order of lawlessness. The intent of lawlessness is to deceive by reference...to the truth...without any intent to obey…but rather to license that rebellious lawless behavior as if the lie is the truth. 

·“Exults himself above every so-called god” - of course the fruits of lawless deception…and who are the first to believe him? The apostate church…of course…they believe a lie…the lie that he is god.

·“Takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as God.” Ok this is interesting to be sure…Paul tells us…that those who have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them…they are the “Temple of God.”

·“Paul also tells us” twice in Acts that our God does not inhabit temples made with hands…

 ·“So…if the temple of God is”…humans filled with the Holy Spirit…let me ask you a question…do you think any of those who are “fallen away” were filled with the Holy Spirit? One would pretty much have to be...to qualify as truly apostate…right?

 ·“Perhaps not only is the false church believing a lie”…their fallen temple is filled with satan…whom they interpret as god…they know his voice...and I am sure they will be the first to bring opposition to the body…just like it says in Rev.11:2

This is all clearly happening today…which is an example of what you are addressing here Keras with the “Understanding the Prophetic Word.”

Just saying…Tatwo...:)

[douggg]

45 minutes ago, tatwo said:

I agree with you here on this Keras…however humor me as I dive into the 2 Thessalonians part and unpack it just a bit. This will begin to throw down the false argument of the false church regarding this Idea of "Pre-Trib Rapture" and stir the outer court a bit...just watch.

It is essential to think of the fullness of Christ as “Head & Body - One” on earth and in heaven at the same time…here’s why…it’s truth…it is how we gain more clear understanding as to what is happening and what is about to happen in terms of the kingdom of God on earth…which is where the revelation of Christ is found, understood and lived out obediently today in the lives of the Sons of God on the earth.

Consider this…from 2 Thessalonians 2? 

“Unless the apostasy comes first”…Apostasy… or a departure from the faith…you have to have been a part of something in order to depart or fall away from it.

Certainly this is the false church being measured (correction and judgment) by Christ the “Rod” and found rebellious and unbelieving…its happening now…the outer court is the false church that is apostatizing (Rev 11:1 & Rev 12:6 the woman...of which Israel is a type). Those who did not receive the love of the truth. (Rev. 11:2)

Think about this…as this takes place…the “apostasy”… isn’t the man of lawlessness being revealed…but to whom? The Body of Christ on the earth…I suggest. The simplest description of “lawlessness” I can think of is…he changes the truth into a lie…deception…those who are believing a lie…hence the falling away. The Lord Yahshua will simply cause them live in delusion.

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work… (2 Thessalonians 2:7a). 

That is why the evil one, the lawless one, will speak blasphemous things and great things. The great things are the Scriptures; the blasphemous things are the ways he uses the Scripture as a weapon.  

Religious people will have no way of escaping this entrapment. He will trap you if you are just religious. That is why the Scriptures say over and over and over again, “In the last days,” the Lord Yahshua Himself saying, “take heed that no one deceives you.”  

Deception is the order of lawlessness. The intent of lawlessness is to deceive by reference...to the truth...without any intent to obey…but rather to license that rebellious lawless behavior as if the lie is the truth. 

·“Exults himself above every so-called god” - of course the fruits of lawless deception…and who are the first to believe him? The apostate church…of course…they believe a lie…the lie that he is god.

·“Takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as God.” Ok this is interesting to be sure…Paul tells us…that those who have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them…they are the “Temple of God.”

·“Paul also tells us” twice in Acts that our God does not inhabit temples made with hands…

 ·“So…if the temple of God is”…humans filled with the Holy Spirit…let me ask you a question…do you think any of those who are “fallen away” were filled with the Holy Spirit? One would pretty much have to be...to qualify as truly apostate…right?

 ·“Perhaps not only is the false church believing a lie”…their fallen temple is filled with satan…whom they interpret as god…they know his voice...and I am sure they will be the first to bring opposition to the body…just like it says in Rev.11:2

This is all clearly happening today…which is an example of what you are addressing here Keras with the “Understanding the Prophetic Word.”

Just saying…Tatwo...:)

What I think the falling away in 2Thessalonians2:3 will be - is the prince who shall come, following the Gog/Magog event, into the middle east and Israel - will be perceived by Israel as their long awaited messiah.    Their arguments and promotion of the person will be very convincing to numerous Christians - that they will depart their faith in Jesus.

On my chart, the falling away would be during the false messianic age.     The peace and safety delusion the world will have at that time will be shattered when the Antichrist, king of Israel (phony) messiah, commits the Transgression of Desolation (ToD) act of 2Thessalonians2:4.     Which that act triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

 

So, imo, the two things that Paul cited in 2Thessalonians2:3-4 as leading into the beginning of the Day of the Lord, go hand-n-hand.

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by douggg

[Keras]

22 hours ago, tatwo said:

I agree with you here on this Keras…however humor me as I dive into the 2 Thessalonians part and unpack it just a bit. This will begin to throw down the false argument of the false church regarding this Idea of "Pre-Trib Rapture" and stir the outer court a bit...just watch.

I reject ANY 'rapture to heaven', that idea is a Satanic lie.   The 'harpazo' of 1 Thess 4:17, is just a gathering to Jerusalem, as Matthew 24:31 tells us. 

22 hours ago, tatwo said:

·“Exults himself above every so-called god” - of course the fruits of lawless deception…and who are the first to believe him? The apostate church…of course…they believe a lie…the lie that he is god.

This is what Satan will do after he is thrown out of heaven. Rev 12:7-8

It won't be the Church so much, as every other false religion and atheist believers.

22 hours ago, tatwo said:

“Takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as God.” Ok this is interesting to be sure…Paul tells us…that those who have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them…they are the “Temple of God.”

No. There will be a new Temple built in Jerusalem. We Christians are Gods Temple during this current age. Soon to change; after the Lord Day of fiery wrath. 

22 hours ago, tatwo said:

“Paul also tells us” twice in Acts that our God does not inhabit temples made with hands…

After the Lord has cleared and cleansed all of the holy Land, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, we Christians will migrate to and live there. We will build a Temple to wprship God in. Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:6-9

23 hours ago, tatwo said:

So…if the temple of God is”…humans filled with the Holy Spirit…let me ask you a question…do you think any of those who are “fallen away” were filled with the Holy Spirit?

For now; yes.  We will soon see who has the faith and trust to stand firm in their faith during the fiery test to come; 1 Peter 4:12

The new Temple will be filled with the Spirit of God; Ezekiel 43:1-4

23 hours ago, tatwo said:

“Perhaps not only is the false church believing a lie”…their fallen temple is filled with satan…whom they interpret as god…they know his voice...and I am sure they will be the first to bring opposition to the body…just like it says in Rev.11:2

I don't agree.  It will be the godless peoples who will oppose the People of God, as per the Gog/Magog attack and at Armageddon. 

22 hours ago, douggg said:

So, imo, the two things that Paul cited in 2Thessalonians2:3-4 as leading into the beginning of the Day of the Lord, go hand-n-hand.

Your opinion and your charts are wrong. The next Prophesied event has to be the Sixth Seal; the Day the Lord changes the world and all the end time prophesies commence. leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus for His thousand year reign over the world. 

[tatwo]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

I reject ANY 'rapture to heaven', that idea is a Satanic lie.   The 'harpazo' of 1 Thess 4:17, is just a gathering to Jerusalem, as Matthew 24:31 tells us. 

Curios....what do you do with Rev. 11:12...its just two people to you?

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, tatwo said:

I agree with you here on this Keras…however humor me as I dive into the 2 Thessalonians part and unpack it just a bit. This will begin to throw down the false argument of the false church regarding this Idea of "Pre-Trib Rapture" and stir the outer court a bit...just watch.

It is essential to think of the fullness of Christ as “Head & Body - One” on earth and in heaven at the same time…here’s why…it’s truth…it is how we gain more clear understanding as to what is happening and what is about to happen in terms of the kingdom of God on earth…which is where the revelation of Christ is found, understood and lived out obediently today in the lives of the Sons of God on the earth.

Shabbat shalom, tatwo.

I use this statement as often as I am able because it's so important: IF you think the Kingdom of God on earth is happening right now, YOU AIN'T SEEN NUTHIN', YET!

Not to state the obvious, but the Kingdom of God is God's Kingdom. It began under the early kings of Israel.

Sha'uwl ("Saul") started out well, but he soon grew too big for his britches. He panicked and usurped the authority of the priest in making the sacrifice when he had no authority or leave to do so. He lied to the prophet Shmu'eel a seer of God, when he said he had done all he was supposed to do to Agag. In the process, he also lied to God and he lied to HIMSELF! So, he was deposed from God's throne, and after some time had passed, he and his son Y'hownatan ("Jonathan") were killed on the field of battle.

King David took over God's Kingdom, first as the king of his own tribe of Judah, making him the first "king of the Jews," and then as the king of all Israel when the rest of Israel came to him. David ACKNOWLEDGED that he was reigning under God's authority, and that YHWH God was the TRUE King! For all important matters regarding the Kingdom of Israel, he brought those matters to God through the auspices of the High Priest, who held the "'uwriym v-tuwmiym" - the "lights and perfections" - a means by which he could find God's answers to his questions.

King Solomon was given the Kingdom by king David when it was in the process of being usurped by David's son 'Adoniy-Yah, who had taken it upon himself to be named the next king of Israel. King Solomon started his kingdom recognizing God's authority in all things and asked God for the wisdom he would need to govern God's people rightly. God granted that appeal and made him the wisest king in the world.

At the zenith of his reign, king Solomon was a king among all his neighbors, having made significant roads to peace by the means available to him. In these other kings giving him daughters to become his wives, he secured peace in the whole territory. At one point, Solomon is said to have had 700 wives and 300 concubines! That's a THOUSAND women for whom he had to provide as they were each used to living as a king's daughter.

Many came to test the wisdom of Solomon, and we are told of the coming of the queen of Shevah ("Shebah"). In extra-biblical sources, we are told of some of the tests he was given.

One that stuck in my mind as a child was the test of the roses. One rose bush was real, but there was also a fake rose bush carefully constructed by the seamstresses who would design such things to sit in houses without need for watering. Solomon looked them over carefully, and saw a dead leaf on one, but just before he pronounced that one to be the real rose bush, he found a dead leaf on the other. He saw a dew drop on one, but again, he found such dew drops on the other, as well. When it looked like he would not be able to tell the difference, he went over to a window, opened it, and let in a bee. The bee, after buzzing around for a few moments, went to one of the bushes, and Solomon declared, "This is the real rose bush!"

In Matthew 12:42 and in Luke 11:31, Yeshua` told His listeners,

Matthew 12:42 (KJV)

42 "The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here!"

Luke 11:31 (KJV)

31 "The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here."

We will SEE this wisdom when the King, Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God -the One Anointed to be King by God, shall return and establish His Kingdom - GOD'S Kingdom - through His leadership!

THIS is the Gospel of the Kingdom! The Good News of God's Kingdom being established here on this earth. It was first recorded in the Davidic Covenant: (I believe one should ALWAYS open up a passage to the full account, to see the context of a verse. It's only 17 verses. I use green for narration, blue for the speech of humans and messengers [angels], purple for the speech of God, and red for the speech of our Lord Yeeshuwa`.)

2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet,

"See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains."

3 And Nathan said to the king,

"Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee."

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 

5 "Go and tell my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?'"'

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies." 

"'Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 

12 "'"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."'"

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

These words were reiterated to Mary in the announcement of her conception of Yeeshuwa` by Gabriel: (I'll try to be brief.)

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Greek: Ieesous, pronounced "yay-soos," just as the 1611 English was, from Hebrew: Yeeshuwa`, pronounced "yay-shoo'-gah," meaning "He shall save"). 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

This will not happen miraculously all at once! He will take His time and develop His Kingdom on a one-to-one basis with those who would seek His wisdom. In Revelation 20:4-6, John told us it would take a thousand years (Greek: chilia etee = "a-thousand years"). In 1 Corinthians 15:20-28, Paul told us that it would be a time when Yeeshuwa` would be conquering and subduing His enemies, until the last enemy, death, was also defeated.

Now, here's the "kicker": What did Yeeshuwa` say to His disciples in the Oilvet Discourse about when the end would come?

Matthew 24:9-14 (KJV)

9 "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted (Greek: Tote paradoosousin humas eis thlipsin = "Then will-they-deliver you into tribulation"), and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

Because we have a different "gospel" today - the "condensed version," I submit to you that this heralding of the gospel about the KINGDOM has NOT been accomplished, yet. In fact, I think WE'VE HARDLY STARTED, YET! While we may consider ourselves God's servants and sons and subjects for His Kingdom right now and we are to make new converts for His Kingdom right now, the Kingdom itself has not started, yet! It won't begin until sometime after the arrival of the King Apparent, Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God.

THIS TRUTH needs to be addressed, FIRST!

 

[Retrobyter]

On 9/16/2022 at 10:14 AM, douggg said:

I hear you.    1948 looked like a good base year based on Israel being the fig tree, and Jack Van Impe was projecting 2018 with the 7 years beginning in 2011.    He was also saying that Juan Carlos of Spain was the Antichrist.

Shalom, douggg.

I, too, was impressed by Jack Van Impe for his memorization of the Scriptures, but not so much for his theology. That's the problem with memorizing a particular version of the Bible without knowing the Greek and Hebrew behind the text!

On 9/16/2022 at 10:14 AM, douggg said:

  Well, 2011 came and went, and no confirming of the covenant for 7 years.    As well as 2018.

I also remember, like you, about Henry Kissinger being said to be the Antichrist.

I can only speak for myself, but I understand a lot more about than I did back then.    Mostly, back then I was influenced by popular commentators like Jack Van Impe and others.   

I never listen to any of them any more because for one thing most are off on what the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years is.      All of them are going to say a peace treaty involving Israel.     Which it is not, but a big speech from the temple mount by the Antichrist following Gog/Magog, at which time he will have the law read to nation of Israel- a requirement by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, to be done on a  7 year cycle.

Jesus did give the parable of the fig tree generation for a reason.   And in spite of past failures by others, I am sticking with my current belief of not later than 2037.      And the 7 years beginning not later than the end of 2030.

One thing I don't do on any of my charts is to give calendar dates - because there is no way of knowing those.

It's important to know the REASONS for the seven years - the last "Week" of Gabriel's prophecy of 70 Weeks to Daniel in Daniel 9: The six purposes are found in Daniel 9:24.

Daniel 9:24 (KJV)

24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people (the children of Israel) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem),
(1) to finish the transgression, and
(2) to make an end of sins, and
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
(6) to anoint the most Holy."

In NONE of these do we read, "to bring in tribulation!" That is NOT the purpose of the 70th Week any more than it was for the first 69 Weeks! However, a time of trouble was inserted into the 70 Weeks:

Daniel 9:25-27 (KJV)

25 "Know therefore and understand, that (from the going forth) (of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem) (unto the Messiah the Prince) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even (in troublous times). 26 And (AFTER threescore and two weeks) shall Messiah be cut off, but not (for himself): and the people (of the prince that shall come) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end (thereof) shall be with a flood, and (unto the end) (of the war) desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant (with many) (for one week): and (in the midst) (of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and (for the overspreading) (of abominations) he shall make it desolate, even (until the consummation), and that determined shall be poured (upon the desolate)."

I have PURPOSELY marked off the prepositional phrases within this text. The objects of the prepositions within the prepositional phrases CANNOT be used as subjects or direct objects or indirect objects within the main sentence structure of the text. That's the rule in English, and in Hebrew, if they are the second noun in a noun construct state, they have the same grammar rule. That's why such constructs are usually translated with the preposition "of" between them.

Therefore, "the prince that shall come" in verse 26 cannot be the antecedent for the words "he" in verse 27! One must go back to the previous masculine, singular noun which IS a subject, "Messiah" in verse 26, to find the antecedent for these "he" pronouns. (In Hebrew, there are no pronouns; there are only the three verbs that carry gender and number which do not have a subject in verse 27.)

Thus, it is ...

1. The MESSIAH shall confirm the covenant with many for one week, and it is ...
2. The MESSIAH shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and it is ...
3. The MESSIAH shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (the end).

The final sentence (conjoined with the vav- connective) is ...

That determined shall be poured upon the desolate (meaning those who are LEFT desolate).

***
1. The Messiah of God confirmed the DAVIDIC Covenant, as did His ancestor David!

1 Kings 2:10-11 (KJV)

10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David. 11And the days that David reigned over Israel were forty years: seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem.

1 Chronicles 29:26-27 (KJV)

26 Thus David the son of Jesse reigned over all Israel. 27 And the time that he reigned over Israel was forty years; seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem.

And, the years in Hebron are found in 2 Samuel.

2 Samuel 2:1-7 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass after this, that David inquired of the LORD, saying,

"Shall I go up into any of the cities of Judah?"

And the LORD said unto him,

"Go up."

And David said,

"Whither shall I go up?"

And he said,

"Unto Hebron."

2 So David went up thither, and his two wives also, Ahinoam the Jezreelitess, and Abigail Nabal's wife the Carmelite. 3 And his men that were with him did David bring up, every man with his household: and they dwelt in the cities of Hebron. 4 And the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David king over the house of Judah. And they told David, saying, 

"That the men of Jabeshgilead were they that buried Saul."

5 And David sent messengers unto the men of Jabeshgilead, and said unto them,

"Blessed be ye of the LORD, that ye have shewed this kindness unto your lord, even unto Saul, and have buried him. 6 And now the LORD shew kindness and truth unto you: and I also will requite you this kindness, because ye have done this thing. 7 Therefore now let your hands be strengthened, and be ye valiant: for your master Saul is dead, and also the house of Judah have anointed me king over them."

This SHOULD have been done for Yeshua`, as well! Instead, He was rejected! We read two interesting things about Yeshua`s ancestor David: He was anointed in verse 7 as "the king of the Jews," the children of Judah, and he was an "anointed one," a "messiah" or, translated into Greek, he was a "christ!"

***
2. The MESSIAH Yeshua` (the Christ Jesus) caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, for we read in Hebrews 10,

Hebrews 10:8-22 (KJV)

8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein"; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God." He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days," saith the Lord, "I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

***
3. The MESSIAH made the city desolate, even until the consummation (the end) when He said,

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.'"

And, this last sentence comes from Psalm 118:26:

Psalm 118:21-26 (KJV)

21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee (, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

I've said this before, but the Hebrew of the blue sentence in verse 26 is ...

בָּר֣וּךְ הַ֭בָּא בְּשֵׁ֣ם יְהוָ֑ה

This sentence is transliterated as ...

"Baruwkh habaa' b-sheem YHWH."

It is translated word-for-word as ...

"Welcome the-Comer in-name of-YHWH." For, we see these first two words in the plural, "Baruwkhiym habaa'iym," at all the airports and seaports in Israel!

This is used for their "Welcome, visitors" signs!

Yeeshuwa` was crucified 3.5 years after the beginning of His "earthly ministry" (actually, His "offer of the Kingdom to Israel"), both "AFTER the 62 Weeks" and "in the middle of the one Week." And, it was just before the Olivet Discourse that Yeeshuwa` left them DESOLATE!

***
The last sentence, "That determined shall be poured upon the desolate (meaning those who are LEFT desolate)," introduced the "gap" of time and the associated "tribulation" BETWEEN the two halves of the 70th Week:

Yeeshuwa` ended His scolding of Jerusalem like this:

"Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.'"

And, the Jews of Jerusalem have not been willing to say those words to Yeeshuwa`, YET!

So, in His prophecy called the Olivet Discourse, He said,

Matthew 24:4-14 (KJV)

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them,

'Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying,

"'I am Christ';

"and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted (Greek: Tote paradoosousin humas eis thlipsin = "Then shall-they-deliver-up you into tribulation"), and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Greek: sootheesetai = "shall-be-rescued"). 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

In using the pronoun "humas," Yeeshuwa` was speaking DIRECTLY to His students in the First Century A.D. Yeeshuwa` continued later,

Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV)

29 "Immediately after the tribulation (Greek: Eutheoos meta teen thlipsin = "Immediately after the tribulation") of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

So, this "tribulation" started for His disciples in the First Century, and it had been continuing and will continue until Our Lord returns.