Shroud of Turin & Shroud of Oviedo

[JohnR7]

People love to talk about the Shroud of Turin and the Shroud of Oviedo (Sudarium). 

My question is if people think the Shroud of Turin is a fake, then why can't anyone duplicate it? How do you attempt to explain that? Other than the blood, the Shroud is a photo negative, but no one knows how it was created. The detail is incredible. There was an article in 1986 in the American Journal of Medicine where a forensic expert talks about the Shroud and all the vast information on it. Of course, there was a huge amount of controversy as the letters from doctors poured in to complain about the article. This continues to be very controversial. 

[ayin jade]

About 30 yrs ago I saw someone duplicate the shroud of turin using a technique known in medieval/renaissance times. The duplicate was uncanny. An exact copy.

[JohnR7]

33 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

An exact copy.

You are a little liberal with your use of the word "exact". 

[ayin jade]

I dont know where you got your image from but that does not look like the image I saw being reproduced.

This isnt that big a deal for me. You can believe in it or not. I was just refuting your comment that no one has produced an image that matches it. I was skeptical at first when I saw it demonstrated, but after watching the artist/historian create the image using techniques from medieval/renaissance times, I was convinced the shroud is merely a fake. 

For unbelievers in Christ, no proof (artifacts like the shroud) is enough or even needed since it is by faith that folks are saved. For Christians, no proof is necessary. 

[Marathoner]

There's an active topic on this subject elsewhere on the forum. 

[AnOrangeCat]

2 hours ago, ayin jade said:

For unbelievers in Christ, no proof (artifacts like the shroud) is enough or even needed since it is by faith that folks are saved. For Christians, no proof is necessary. 

I agree there, and I think proof in the form of things like the shroud run a bit counter to God's intentions for us. We're called on to have faith. If we get things that constitute hard evidence of something supernatural we'd end up like Thomas, believing because we saw. Jesus said blessed are those who have not seen but believed anyway.

[creativemechanic]

so people believe that of the millions of people alive at that time..... this face imprinted had to be Jesus and it happned to resemble the classic European art portrayals of Jesus too??? More crazy people are outside of the asylums than  in......

[Jayne]

9 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

People love to talk about the Shroud of Turin and the Shroud of Oviedo (Sudarium). 

My question is if people think the Shroud of Turin is a fake, then why can't anyone duplicate it? How do you attempt to explain that? Other than the blood, the Shroud is a photo negative, but no one knows how it was created. The detail is incredible. There was an article in 1986 in the American Journal of Medicine where a forensic expert talks about the Shroud and all the vast information on it. Of course, there was a huge amount of controversy as the letters from doctors poured in to complain about the article. This continues to be very controversial. 

Here's the bottom line, John.

It takes NO medical research, no "duplication", no journal articles.....

ALL it takes to prove the shroud is a fake is to read the Bible about the description of Jesus' dead body.

• The Bible prophesies that Jesus' beard would be pulled out.  [Isaiah] The shroud shows a full and manicured beard.  Fake.

 

• The Bible says that Jesus' face was beaten "over and over " by the Roman soldiers with a staff.  [Mark 15:19].  The face on the shroud shows no broken/bloodied nose, no hematomas, no swollen areas, no nothing to show a face beaten multiple times.

 

• The Bible says that Pilate ordered Jesus to be flogged before the crucifixion.  [Mark 15:15]  Flogging by Romans was almost a death sentence.  A scourging, whether with bits of metal and such tied to multiple cords or with one cord, would leave severe marks on a body and multiple places where skin, ears, lips, and other flesh was ripped off.  Why do you think that Jesus was unable to carry his own cross?  Flogging, many times, lead to death.  There are NO signs of flogging on the shroud.  Fake.

 

• The Bible prophsies that the crucified Jesus would not even look human after his abuse.  [Isaiah] The face and body on the shroud show no signs of that kind of abuse.  Fake.

 

[Jayne]

24 minutes ago, creativemechanic said:

so people believe that of the millions of people alive at that time..... this face imprinted had to be Jesus and it happned to resemble the classic European art portrayals of Jesus too??? More crazy people are outside of the asylums than  in......

I would reconsider the use of words like "crazy" and "asylums".  

[JohnR7]

45 minutes ago, Jayne said:

the shroud shows no broken/bloodied nose

Psalm 34 19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the LORD delivers him from them all. 20 He protects all his bones; not one of them will be broken.