Ask Me Anything About Christianity

[DeighAnn]

20 minutes ago, Starise said:

Dead in Christ means PRESERVED dead in Christ until they are raised again. Their souls are with the Lord, but they have not yet risen.

Since when has DEAD meant PRESERVED?   or is that just WHAT fits your beliefs because it doesn't fit with what is written.  DEAD BODIES ARE UNCLEAN.  I gave you Scripture.  People who touch dead bodies are UNCLEAN.  Yet you tell me that will no longer apply but don't SHOW ME WHERE IT IS WRITTEN.  

WHAT MAKES A SOUL?  A BODY AND BREATH IN THE NOSTRILS.  So our SOUL would be BODY AND BREATH OF LIFE.  

SO, NOW, ACCORDING to you I have to 
believe that dead means preserved
those made ALIVE will be made dead
and soul doesn't mean body and breath of life
and unclean will be raised out from the dead glorious
and I have to null and void it is raised a spiritual body

Shall I null and void 'if the dead aren't raised then Christ isn't raised' also?  

Seems like a lot is being rewritten to fit in this last day out from the dead theory.  

So, it doesn't say "sown a natural body raised a SPIRIT" but I AM TO BELIEVE THAT IS CORRECT

AND it DOES say sown a natural body RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY AND I AM TO BELIEVE THAT IS INCORRECT?  

And you don't see any problems here?  

ALL OF THIS so that DEAD FLESH can be raised out from the corruption of the earth for the spiritual body.  

So now I HAVE TO make null and void 'NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION'

EXACTLY HOW MANY VERSES IS TOOO MANY?  AT WHAT POINT DO WE SAY, THIS CAN'T BE RIGHT?  ME, I am of the 1 is too many.  I would just like to know if there is an end to the making what is written UNTRUE and replacing it with what isn't found anywhere.  

Could you give me Scripture and not thoughts.  I looked up dead and no where did I find 'preserved'.  

[DeighAnn]

38 minutes ago, Starise said:

Scripture reference " The DEAD IN CHRIST will rise first" This could be reworded as "those saved who have already died" or " Those covered under the blood of Christ".

by whom?  I UNDERSTAND you BELIEF causes you to think that but where is the support in the words of God.  

We are made ALIVE in Christ,  Death is of the prince of this world.  

Those who have been made alive in Christ FOLLOW HIM.  Return with Him.  SHOW ME where it says DEAD FLESH RISES UP OUT OF THE GRAVE TO REUNITE WITH A SOUL RETURNING FROM HEAVEN.

IT SAYS THE DEAD ARE RAISED UP out from the dead.  

HOW do the souls go from being with Christ to being amongst the dead being raised up out from the dead?  I ask again for SCRIPTURE, NOT thoughts or beliefs  or explanations.  





 

[Dan Knight]

5 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

by whom?  I UNDERSTAND you BELIEF causes you to think that but where is the support in the words of God.  

We are made ALIVE in Christ,  Death is of the prince of this world.  

Those who have been made alive in Christ FOLLOW HIM.  Return with Him.  SHOW ME where it says DEAD FLESH RISES UP OUT OF THE GRAVE TO REUNITE WITH A SOUL RETURNING FROM HEAVEN.

IT SAYS THE DEAD ARE RAISED UP out from the dead.  

HOW do the souls go from being with Christ to being amongst the dead being raised up out from the dead?  I ask again for SCRIPTURE, NOT thoughts or beliefs  or explanations.  





 

The Return of the Lord
…15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.…

[DeighAnn]

44 minutes ago, Starise said:

If the dead in Christ are raised at the end, at the time of the Lord's second coming. The only thing with God now are their souls.

OR it is THE DEAD WHO WENT TO BURY THEIR DEAD WHO ARE RISING.  Those who weren't made alive while they yet lived.  Those who NEVER HEARD the Truth preached and so died NOT HAVING BEEN MADE ALIVE, like those who did hear the truth and came to faith.

Simply the DEAD are raised.  WHY?  because THE SOULS UNDER THE ALTAR HAVE TO BE AVENGED.  How does Gods Wrath fall upon them if they remain in the grave?  

How will they see those who have endured to the end be TRANSFORMED?  

Who will be being taught by the PRIESTS for the next 1000 years?  Who will we be judging besides the angels that RETURN WITH CHRIST on the day of vengeance?


Do you seriously believe that ONLY THE FINAL GENERATION will have GOD WRATH FALL UPON IT?

DO YOU THINK that all those tortured during the dark ages will NOT HAVE THEIR DEATHS AVENGED?   

How exactly do you see 'the earth of 24 billion souls being raised up at the same time?  

What about the persons who ate other persons?  Who gets what decomposition?  

How exactly is decomposition made GLORIOUS?

Does death cease to make one unclean?  

[Dan Knight]

1 minute ago, Dan Knight said:

The Return of the Lord
…15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.…

1 thessalonians 4:18Therefore encourage one another with these words

[Dan Knight]

5 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

OR it is THE DEAD WHO WENT TO BURY THEIR DEAD WHO ARE RISING.  Those who weren't made alive while they yet lived.  Those who NEVER HEARD the Truth preached and so died NOT HAVING BEEN MADE ALIVE, like those who did hear the truth and came to faith.

Simply the DEAD are raised.  WHY?  because THE SOULS UNDER THE ALTAR HAVE TO BE AVENGED.  How does Gods Wrath fall upon them if they remain in the grave?  

How will they see those who have endured to the end be TRANSFORMED?  

Who will be being taught by the PRIESTS for the next 1000 years?  Who will we be judging besides the angels that RETURN WITH CHRIST on the day of vengeance?


Do you seriously believe that ONLY THE FINAL GENERATION will have GOD WRATH FALL UPON IT?

DO YOU THINK that all those tortured during the dark ages will NOT HAVE THEIR DEATHS AVENGED?   

How exactly do you see 'the earth of 24 billion souls being raised up at the same time?  

What about the persons who ate other persons?  Who gets what decomposition?  

How exactly is decomposition made GLORIOUS?

Does death cease to make one unclean?  

Ezekiel 37:1-14

¹¹ Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ ¹² Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. ¹³ Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. ¹⁴ I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

[DeighAnn]

52 minutes ago, Starise said:

No this is not confusion. WE can say we are saved, present tense, yet we haven't seen the total fruition of this yet. 

TRUE, this body must be SOWN so we can be raised up in our SPIRITUAL BODY.  

WHAT IS WRITTEN?  This body is nothing but the SEED for the spiritual body.  Why?  because we will all look the same as we do now.  We know this from the Mount of Transfiguration as everyone is RECOGNIZED as being just who they are.  DNA, a grain + OUR WORKS AND to EVERY SEED A BODY.  

Not to every seed a trip to heaven and then a return and then a rising out from the dead and corruption A GLORIOUS BODY.  


NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION

DEAL WITH THIS PLEASE.  

What comes from corruption or from the dead or from hell all being the same 

DOESN'T BECOME IMMORTAL at least not till their names are found in the book of life in 1000 years.  

Isn't that when THE DEAD that are raised up stand in judgment?  

If the DEAD IN CHRIST are in fact 'the saved' WHY will some of them not be found in the book of life?   Are you saying that some of the dead in Christ will be thrown into the lake of fire?  


WILL BOTH continue on meaning BOTH or will both soon be meaning 'individual'?

[Your closest friendnt]

32 minutes ago, Starise said:

Thank you.

Nowhere do I find bible support for as you say it- 

The dead in Christ are those who believe in Jesus Christ those three days when Jesus Christ preached the Gospel to them from the day of his death to the time of his resurrection...

Key words here being "three days"

Jesus rose within 3 days of His death. That's it. Period. The three day has no other application to any group of people. If so. where is it exactly?

Key phrases in the other text you quoted- " The dead will hear the voice of the Son of God.....yes, this is what is a direct connection to the end times resurrection. With a LOUD TRUMPET and a SHOUT, the dead in Christ will rise.

Future future future.

If I understand the rest of your post correctly Abraham was somehow commissioned to preach to those who were in the graves previous to the Lord's resurrection.

The NIV states it thus:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

He rejoiced the same way we rejoice when WE think of the Lord's return. He knew of it and rejoiced. He saw it was going to happen, just as we see it is going to happen.

We clearly have a difference of opinion on this. The text as quoted does not support for me the idea the dead were preached to after death as an avenue for them to get saved.

A belief in God at that time BEFORE DEATH would have sufficed for the faith necessary in the future sacrifice of Christ.

Hebrews 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

death>judgement>outcome based on a decision for Christ, repentance of sins or in not doing so.

Not

death>an emergency sermon to decide from Abraham for those born before Christ> outcome

 

When I said from the time of his death to the time of his resurrection, this a truth statement and cannot be refuted...with that I steer clear from any controversy about this matter....the emphasis in that this the first and the last time Jesus descended to the place of dead...and to the place of Abraham where the children of the Lord were kept..separated from the dead people of the rest of the world...

Let's see what and where we agree with that so we can take it from there. 

[Starise]

19 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Since when has DEAD meant PRESERVED?   or is that just WHAT fits your beliefs because it doesn't fit with what is written.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Psalms 121:7

The Lord will protect you from all evil;
He will keep your soul.

Psalms 121:8

The Lord will guard your going out and your coming in
From this time forth and forever.

Luke 17:33

Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

Hebrews 10:39

But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Psalm 27:3-5
Though a host encamp against me, My heart will not fear; Though war arise against me, In spite of this I shall be confident. One thing I have asked from the LORD, that I shall seek: That I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, To behold the beauty of the LORD And to meditate in His temple. For in the day of trouble He will conceal me in His tabernacle; In the secret place of His tent He will hide me; He will lift me up on a rock

 

Psalm 121:7
Verse Concepts
The Lord will protect you from all evil;
He will keep your soul

What is God preserving here? 

Rev. 13:14

And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.”

Job 3:17

“There the wicked cease from raging,
And there the weary are at rest.

Luke 20:36

or they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Romans 8:23

And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

 

Hebrews 4:11

Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

A soul that went to be with the Lord is not in corruption. "We" are not what lays in a grave after death. 

TRUE, but you have something COMING OUT FROM THE GRAVE and that is nothing but CORRUPTION no matter how you slice it.  

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

If this were even remotely true, there would be no need for the resurrection of the dead at the end.

Except for GODS WRATH to avenge

and to rule and reign and be priests for GODS WILL being that all come to repentance. Do you think that is why Satan will be bound all that time?  

 

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Then it has been said we have two bodies to attempt to explain this. Two bodies? Really? I find this a biblically unsupported and frankly very odd answer.

How is that possible?  How many times have I pointed to the Scriptures. 
 

 

1Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 

IT DOESN'T SAY THERE IS A NATURAL BODY THAT IS CHANGED INTO A SPIRITUAL BODY.  

BUT THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IT SAYS, RIGHT?  THAT THERE IS JUST THE ONE RE-USED?  

YOU ARE SAYING THE SINFUL DECOMPOSING IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE EARTH IS THE BODY THAT IS RAISED UP TO BECOME GLORIOUS.  



 

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 

1Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 

1Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 

1Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 

1Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.



Do you believe that by ADAM death was brought about, but by CHRIST LIFE IS NOT BROUGHT ABOUT 'until later on'?

How many people pay a ransom and then go to get the one they paid the ransom for after they have died?  
 

1Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 

Does this say

IF THE DEAD WON'T BE RISING IN THE FUTURE? OR DOES IT SAY

IF THE DEAD DON'T RISE?  

Lets not add or subtract or let our beliefs dictate what is written. 
 

1Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 

1Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 

1Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 

1Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 

1Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

I THINK THE PROBLEM IS I KEEP EXPLAINING HOW EXACTLY I READ THESE VERSES.  I THINK YOU NEED TO SHOW ME HOW YOU READ THEM.