Christians and War (Kill 'em All)

[eagleswings]

Big Steve, let me add my heartfelt thanks for you and countless others who serve in are armed forces so we can enjoy the freedom America has...........Many pray for you all daily........................... Thank God we voted for Bush, as christians how could we do otherwise..............................deacon you surprise me very very much......................

[Big Steve]

Deacon - By saying Bush flat out lied about the WMD situation, you make it sound like he just sat around one day and thought all these things up, and purposely presented the nation with false information, in order to start this war.

That's exactly what Bush did.

We also had with us a British "fox" vehicle, whose sole purpose it to detect chemical weapons. Well not long after we stopped we started receiving incoming artillery rounds.

As I said, this is not relevant to the 2003 invastion. And, I don't know anything about those British chemical detectors, whether they're very accrurate and detect only what could be accounted for by chemical weapons of if they detect a broader range of toxins. But, I'll take your word for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Deacon, if this is truly your position, I can see what I'm dealing with. I won't waste my time anymore giving you firsthand experience and facts.

As for the chemical detection vehicles, nah, they're not very accuate at all. I think they came in a Hotwheels pack.

[ted]

Deacon doesn't surprize me at all.

When does brute force beat guerrilla warfare?

When it's allowed to without a bunch of whining and crying from people that don't know any better.

t.

PS- Deacon, what's your first hand experience in all of this?

[Leonard]

BAGHDAD, Iraq

[Big Steve]

Ted - thanks bro. This is just a touchy subject with me. To have someone put it down, who has never been there and has no idea, it gets me goin and sometimes I need somebody to pull me back and say hey, don't bother.

So thanks for pullin me back.

[Big Steve]

Deacon doesn't surprize me at all.

When does brute force beat guerrilla warfare?

When it's allowed to without a bunch of whining and crying from people that don't know any better.

bingo ted!

[NITE OWL]

You know...no one ever talks about the atrocities that went on in those two countries before we got there. Men, women, and children were butchered for no reason what so ever. Little children were physically tortured and executed.

You anti-war people like to talk about all the killing. What about all the people who are still alive because we're there?

Saddam slaughtered countless thousands of his own people. How would you feel if the tables were turned and Bush was doing that to us?

I don't get it. War is never a good thing...but sometimes you just gotta do what's right.

[dgolvach]

Every Christian should hate war. However, we should also understand that in a fallen world, sometimes smaller or earlier wars prevent ones with a much higher death toll. If only the allies had listened to Churchill in the 1930s? Some good God fearing Christian folk called him a war monger and told him that his proposed war against Hitler could cost a million lives. So we waited in the name of "peace" and it cost 50 million lives in the 1040s. This is absolute History. We will never know if Saddam Hussain would have spread his homicidal misery beyond his borders because he was not given a chance. Its pretty clear that he would of done so if given the opportunity. Bush is not perfect but I believe he was right and just for snuffing out this deadly sadistic power hungry bunch of Bathist (Nazi) devils.

God Bless and give peace with justice a chance.

Dan

[fenwar]

The original question wasn't about Iraq so let's not turn this into a debate about Iraq! I am sure that it is evident to swaltonb2003 that this is clearly not something that is a cut-and-dried issue.

Deacon and Swanton: Your selective use of Scripture betrays either an severe misunderstanding of the Word of God, or duplicity.

Jesus exhorted His disciples in the very soberest of words to 'buy a sword.' Do you think swords are used in tiddly-winks?

These quotes are used rather selectively, too... At that moment, Jesus was on the brink of being arrested. He knows, of course, that he must go to the cross. But it is vital that his disciples do not get arrested or killed. What he tells them to do is for that time and that time alone, as he fulfils his mission on earth.

"Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"

"Nothing," they answered.

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."

"That is enough," he replied." (Luke 22.35-38)

To suggest that he actually wants his disciples to use force is to completely misunderstand him. Which is forgivable, of course - even the disciples thought that was what he meant!

"When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him." (Luke 22.49-51, emphasis mine)

Jesus Himself said He came '...to bring a sword....'

Not literally, Leonard. Jesus is using a metaphor here to tell his disciples about the divisive nature of the gospel - to receive it and preach it will turn people against them. The church was not built with the sword.

It is entirely possible to 'love your neighbor' even while you are at war with them. One of my favorite Robert E. Lee quotes is this one, wherein he is speaking of fighting the North, during the War of Northern Aggression; saying he always fought to win, he nonetheless "....never felt rancor toward them, and a day has never passed in which I failed to pray for them."

This is exactly how I feel toward the Moslem world. At least once a day, I pray for the whole Moslem world, yet I support the war on terrorism, and I fault G.W. Bush for not prosecuting it more vigorously.

This is much more helpful.

I think this is why the original poster asked the question; he or she has not seen this in action and is under the impression that "many Christians have given up trying" to love their neighbour.

So it would be worth exploring this angle in more depth - how do we love our neighbour when we are at war with them - rather than the current unhelpful debate which basically boils down to "why our neighbour deserved to be attacked".

Fenwar

[ted]

"Christians and war (kill 'em all)" and drinking up any excuse to justify what they hate.

LOL!

Ok, I'll do this under your rules.

Please show to me the evidence that I personally hate those that I went to war with. You made the claim that I, (as I claim to be Christian, and have participated in the WOT) have a "kill 'em all" mentality. You also say that I, in effect and by association by being Christian, am drinking up any excuse to justify this "hate".

Your turn: show me the evidence of my hatred. Show me just how many prisoners I have abused, how many children I have killed, and just how many women I have tortured.

When you come up with the evidence, I will stand down. Until then, you will have to realize that when you make these idiotic claims against Christians, and their supposed hate, you will have to understand that you are talking about individual people that have been there.

Steve has already put your accusations to shame. You asked for first hand experience, and got it. What you did then was to be expected: you brushed aside what he said and continued on with your personal opinions regardless of his testimony.

In effect, you called him a liar.

So, please, take all your little reports from CNN, and go find people that may have not been over there, and try to convince them of what you bring to the table.

I can guarantee that you will have an easier time with your arguments if you were to present this stuff to people that haven't been there to see for themselves.

What are you suggesting Ted? That my examples I gave don't support me? How about your examples, the ones you didn't give? Do you think the Commies were too soft on the Afhgans to put down the violence.

Whatever examples I give from Afghanistan will be brushed aside by you, you have shown that much already from Steve's post. But, I'll give you a clue: I spent 9 months there. Given that, you would get real life experience answers from me- something you have shown not to agree with, so what's the point?

To answer your question about the commies: No, they were very brutal toward the Afghans, but the Afghans had us on their side back then, remember? The commies never had a chance.

What do you mean first hand experience? If I were a soldier on the ground in some never ending effort to put down guerilla warfare by force that I would then know that force can beat gurerilla warfare?

What I meant was that earlier in this thread, you basically wanted people to base their arguments on personal experience. Someone did, and you blew it off. So, I figured you could enlighten us with all of your personal experience to help us understand.

Soooo.......let's hear it. Tell us all about it.

We'll wait.

Just trying to help.

t.