God's True Purpose For Israel

[Jake for Jesus]

GOD's TRUE PURPOSE FOR ISRAEL IS SALVATION

I am just curious as to how many of you here who may be sincere, devoted followers of Jesus that may have be deceived to believe the lies of Christian Zionism? And in particular the lie that the Jews are being re-gathered to their anicent land today to be blessed?

The Jews are not being re-gathered to their ancient land to be blessed. They are being re-gather to their ancient land to face a terrible judgment is why they are being re-gathered --- known in Jeremiah 30 as the time of Jacob's trouble (the Great Tribulation) in which they will be deceived into thinking the Antichrist is their Messiah (John chapter 5:43).

I am just curious as to how many have been told that there is a blessing for Jews apart from Jesus? If you have been told that. It is a lie! There is no blessing for the Jews apart from Jesus.

The Jews are under the curse of the law, as Paul plainly states in Roman and Galatians (see Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10-11; Romans 2:12, 3:19-20, 4:13-15). As the Bible teaches, the law of God is indeed perfect (Psalm 19:8; 119; Romans 4:13-15), but it brings an indictment against all mankind for their sins. Yet because the Jews were specifically chosen to bring the world the revelation of God, the indictment falls upon them first (Exodus 17:8, 16; Deuteronomy 25:17-19).

For reasons of how some here have reacted to my posts on this bulletion board during the short time I have been here, in attempts to misrepresent me to others and the things I say, and to criticize me. I have now come to want to probe to see more of just what kind of Christianity you have here.

Jacob

Edited October 3, 2005 by Jake for Jesus

[other one]

Well, since Jesus told us that people would no longer be held responsible for the sin of their fathers, I think I would not put it in the way that you have.

For a very long time the Jewish people have had blinders on concerning Jesus, and this was for our (gentiles) own good.

I think you are right about Jacobs troubles, but it is necessary for them to accept Jesus as Lord and savior.

Rom 11:25-27

25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and thus all Israel will be saved ; just as it is written,

"The Deliverer will come from Zion,

He will remove ungodliness from Jacob."

27 "And this is My covenant with them,

When I take away their sins."

NASB

What you call a punishment in reality is a cleansing, and a time of trouble so as to save "ALL" Israel when the Lord comes and removes their sins.

I don't agree that they are being gathered to be punished, but put through some trials so as to be cleansed and saved in the end; and in the end that is a blessing and not the curse that you speak.....

What makes you think that more Jews will accept the anti Christ than the rest of the world. If there is no pre trib rapture we will all accept the anti christ that have not been saved and still have our names written in the book of life. But remember the above verse that "ALL" Israel will be saved, and that does not sound like they will all be punished and condemned.

You say that they are being gathered to be punished, and I say that they are being gathered to be cleansed by trials and saved.

That is the kind of Christianity in this old dudes heart, but I can only speak for myself and not the board. I think that the idea of this ministry of George's is to work to save as many of those being gathered before the cleansing begins, but that is just my opinion........

Sam 'I Am'

[Guest parousia2]

GOD's TRUE PURPOSE FOR ISRAEL IS SALVATION

I am just curious as to how many of you here who may be sincere, devoted followers of Jesus that may have be deceived to believe the lies of Christian Zionism? And in particular the lie that the Jews are being re-gathered to their anicent land today to be blessed?

The Jews are not being re-gathered to their ancient land to be blessed. They are being re-gather to their ancient land to face a terrible judgment is why they are being re-gathered --- known in Jeremiah 30 as the time of Jacob's trouble (the Great Tribulation) in which they will be deceived into thinking the Antichrist is their Messiah (John chapter 5:43).

I am just curious as to how many have been told that there is a blessing for Jews apart from Jesus? If you have been told that. It is a lie! There is no blessing for the Jews apart from Jesus.

The Jews are under the curse of the law, as Paul plainly states in Roman and Galatians (see Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10-11; Romans 2:12, 3:19-20, 4:13-15). As the Bible teaches, the law of God is indeed perfect (Psalm 19:8; 119; Romans 4:13-15), but it brings an indictment against all mankind for their sins. Yet because the Jews were specifically chosen to bring the world the revelation of God, the indictment falls upon them first (Exodus 17:8, 16; Deuteronomy 25:17-19).

For reasons of how some here have reacted to my posts on this bulletion board during the short time I have been here, in attempts to misrepresent me to others and the things I say, and to criticize me. I have now come to want to probe to see more of just what kind of Christianity you have here.

Jacob

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that the Jews were to be gathered together for punishment, but why do you look for a fulfillment of that in the future? They were gathered together for the Passover in A.D. 70 and God's judgment came upon them (see Matthew 23) through His instruments of wrath, the Roman armies.

[Guest shiloh357]

GOD's TRUE PURPOSE FOR ISRAEL IS SALVATION

I am just curious as to how many of you here who may be sincere, devoted followers of Jesus that may have be deceived to believe the lies of Christian Zionism? And in particular the lie that the Jews are being re-gathered to their anicent land today to be blessed?

The Jews are not being re-gathered to their ancient land to be blessed. They are being re-gather to their ancient land to face a terrible judgment is why they are being re-gathered --- known in Jeremiah 30 as the time of Jacob's trouble (the Great Tribulation) in which they will be deceived into thinking the Antichrist is their Messiah (John chapter 5:43).

I am just curious as to how many have been told that there is a blessing for Jews apart from Jesus? If you have been told that. It is a lie! There is no blessing for the Jews apart from Jesus.

The Jews are under the curse of the law, as Paul plainly states in Roman and Galatians (see Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10-11; Romans 2:12, 3:19-20, 4:13-15). As the Bible teaches, the law of God is indeed perfect (Psalm 19:8; 119; Romans 4:13-15), but it brings an indictment against all mankind for their sins. Yet because the Jews were specifically chosen to bring the world the revelation of God, the indictment falls upon them first (Exodus 17:8, 16; Deuteronomy 25:17-19).

For reasons of how some here have reacted to my posts on this bulletion board during the short time I have been here, in attempts to misrepresent me to others and the things I say, and to criticize me. I have now come to want to probe to see more of just what kind of Christianity you have here.

Jacob

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try reading your Bible. You need to read Ezek 36 and 37. God is regathering His people back to His Land to demonstrate His faithfulness to His Word. God promiserd that He would scatter them and He promised that He would gather them back to the Land as well. He does this, not because they deserve it, but so that His Name will not be reproached among the nations. God's hand is still upon the Jewish people. The Land is theirs by right of an eternal covenant. And yes, He is bringing them back as a blessing to them, because He loves them.

This thread will not serve your purpose, but will serve to show that you are ignorant of Christian Zionism, what it stands for, and what God's purposes for it are. It will unfortunately serve as a platform for anti-Semitism, and those on this board who hate the Jewish people will see this as an opportunity to share why they hate Jews and it will justify their belief that they are a cursed race. You will be a close ally to those who hate Israel.

It will show that people like you are a liabilty to the Kingdom of God and to Jewish evangelism, not an asset. With so called "Christians" like you, who needs the Nazis?

[Smalcald]

Well I believe that Christ fulfills His promises, and some of those promises are to Israel and the Jews. So Christ will handle Israel and the Jews, just as Christ will handle all of our salvation. Our only role is to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ; we cannot impact prophecy one way or the other, and we cannot impact how God will deal with Israel. We also must remember to not forget our Arab brothers and sisters in Christ. There are far more followers of Jesus Christ who live in the Arab world than there are who live in Israel, and we are told in the Holy Bible to show special love toward people who also hold our faith in Christ. People who already belong to the Church of Christ.

However no Jew or Gentile will be saved outside of Christ you are correct in that. The only problem I have would be with anyone who claims that somehow Jews do not have to fully accept Christ as their God as their Lord and Savior, that they do not have to listen to the words of Paul concerning Law and Grace. I have no idea if that is happening, but I think it is important to not fall into apostasy in our zeal to convert the Jewish people.

[Jake for Jesus]

"Other One" wrote:

What makes you think that more Jews will accept the anti Christ than the rest of the world.

My Response:

Thank you for your post.

Perhaps you may have misread my post.

I had not intended to give the impression that more Jews would accept the Antichrist than any body else would, when he does finally emerge on the world stage.

"Other One" wrote:

. . . . remember the above verse that "ALL" Israel will be saved, and that does not sound like they will all be punished and condemned.

My Response:

Of course, I realize not all Christians are of the same theology.

For my part, I respect the veiws of others that may be different from my own. Based on what I see in Romans 11:26 Paul looks forward a to time when "all Israel will be saved." However, I do not take that to mean that all Jews will be saved, no more than all Gentiles will be saved. Just as not all Gentiles will be saved, not all Jews will be either.

In light of what Paul has said previously in the same chapter about the remnant, Paul seems to makes clear that the "all Israel" who will be saved will be the remnant who God has chosen and reserved for Himself by His grace.

To some others who have posted in response to my post. Thank you also for your posts. I am wanting to respond to your posts also, and I will later as I come to have more time to be able to do so.

Respectfully,

Jacob

Edited October 3, 2005 by Jake for Jesus

[Guest shiloh357]

So far, nothing on this thread has anything to do with Christian Zionism.

Christian Zionists are Christians who believe that the Jewish people have a right to live in peace and security in their own Land. Christian Zionism affirms the eternal covenant that God made with the Jewish people in Gen 17:8,9 regarding their right to the Land.

Christian Zionists do not believe that Jewish people can be saved outside of Christ, but that is completely beside the point. Christian Zionists stand with Israel against the onslaught of Arab terrorism, and the Arab instigated war of annihilation that has been waged every day against Israel since Israel's rebirth in 1948.

Christian Zionism is an expression of unconditional love for the Jewish people living in the Land of Israel. This does not mean that we agree with everything Israel does, but that we love Israel with the love of Christ, and we believe that supporting Israel will help span the gulf that has existed between Christians and Jews for the last 1700 years. It is our fervent desire for this expression of love to help correct the misconceptions that Jews have concerning Christianity, and will be an avenue to help in the spread of the gospel.

As I have said, Jake for Jesus does not know what he is talking about, and is trying fabricate a false picture of Christian Zionism.

To understand what Christian Zionism is, you must first understand what Zionism is.

Zionism is:

• The National Liberation movement of the Jewish People.
  
• It is the modern expression of the ancient longing by the Jewish People to return to their land and live as a free people once again.
  
• It is the desire to secure a modern state for the Jewish nation.
  
• It is the conviction that the Jewish people has the right to live in freedom and security in its homeland.
  
• It is the determination to aid and encourage the return of any and all Jewish refugees of the Diaspora who wish to return home.
  
• It is the concern for the safety and security of that modern state, and the desire to see it strong enough to defend itself and the Jewish people as a whole from any present or future existential threat.
  

Christian Zionism affirms the above. We stand shoulder to shoulder with the Jewish people in their struggle for survival in world that is hostile to them. We stand with Israel to correct the inaccurate portrayal of Israel in the media. Israel is the only nation in the world that has to justify its right to exist. Christian Zionism is here to make known to the world that Israel exists by Divine right, and her rebirth is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. We endeavor to live by God's edict: "Those who bless you I will bless, and those who curse you, I will curse."

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

I agree more with Jake than I do with Shiloh on this subject. I am not a Zionist, as I do not want any more Jews to perform Alayah to Israel. There are many verses which support Deut 4:26-31, which says that UNTIL those in the Diaspora repent, God IS NOT going to regather them to their land. For what we see of those now in the land this is going to occur:

Zechariah 14:1-2 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

for this will occur just after:

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

God still loves the Jews, for the "sake of the Fathers", but until they enter into the New Covenant, they will NOT BE regathered to their Land.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest shiloh357]

Greetings,

I agree more with Jake than I do with Shiloh on this subject. I am not a Zionist, as I do not want any more Jews to perform Alayah to Israel. There are many verses which support Deut 4:26-31, which says that UNTIL those in the Diaspora repent, God IS NOT going to regather them to their land. For what we see of those now in the land this is going to occur:

Zechariah 14:1-2 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

for this will occur just after:

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

God still loves the Jews, for the "sake of the Fathers", but until they enter into the New Covenant, they will NOT BE regathered to their Land.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well then you stand in opposition to God and His Word. The Jewish people are being brought back to the Land despite what your "theology" says should happen. They are being gathered back to their Land despite their unbelief, and that is fulfillment of Bible prophecy. You need to read your Bible.

[nebula]

The Jews are not being re-gathered to their ancient land to be blessed. They are being re-gather to their ancient land to face a terrible judgment is why they are being re-gathered . . .

I take that to mean yo believe the Lord is bringing the Jews back to Israel?

I am just curious as to how many have been told that there is a blessing for Jews apart from Jesus?

Who said that? Anyone here?

The Jews are under the curse of the law, . . .

The whole world is under a curse.

Yet because the Jews were specifically chosen to bring the world the revelation of God, the indictment falls upon them first (Exodus 17:8, 16; Deuteronomy 25:17-19).

True:

Romans 2 -

1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds": 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law.

Hmm . . . first or last . . . does it matter the order or the means? Gentiles are in no better shape than Jews - apart from Jesus.

Now as for:

They are being re-gather to their ancient land to face a terrible judgment is why they are being re-gathered

The Jews have been punished for 2000 years - first by Rome in 70AD - then by the rest of the world through various persecutions.

Why the need for more?

Because God blinded their eyes? (Romans 11:8)

I beleive the Lord still has a purpose for Israel to bring glory to His name to be fulfilled in the End Times - and it isn't about their being deceived, nor about their destruction.