Could there be Multiple Raptures?

[OneLight]

6 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Kind of like a change of clothes?  

Glad you have a sense of humor!  I guess one could liken it to changing clothes!

Here is an example of being there but unseen.

2 Kings 6:14-19

14 Therefore he sent horses and chariots and a great army there, and they came by night and surrounded the city. 15 And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with horses and chariots. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?”

16 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18 So when the Syrians came down to him, Elisha prayed to the Lord, and said, “Strike this people, I pray, with blindness.” And He struck them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.

As for when we can see angels, there are so many instances found in scripture it can't be missed if one reads the bible. 

[FreeGrace]

4 minutes ago, OneLight said:

You are using human reasoning, as I've stated before.  Is God limited to what humans are limited to?  God is not bound to time or space, so why do you limit Him to such?  No straining at gnats here, just looking for you to give scripture, not conjecture. 

OK.  And my human reasoning comes from my God given conscience, from Rom 2:14,15.  That's why God gave humanity the ability to know right from wrong.  

Of course God is not limited to what humans are limited to.  That is a silly question.

How have I "limited God to time or space" as you charge?  Please quote me on that.

I have given you much but you seem to need what doesn't need to be written.

How many kings do you know who rule their country from a far away country?

[FreeGrace]

1 minute ago, OneLight said:

Glad you have a sense of humor!  I guess one could liken it to changing clothes!

Here is an example of being there but unseen.

2 Kings 6:14-19

14 Therefore he sent horses and chariots and a great army there, and they came by night and surrounded the city. 15 And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with horses and chariots. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?”

16 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18 So when the Syrians came down to him, Elisha prayed to the Lord, and said, “Strike this people, I pray, with blindness.” And He struck them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.

As for when we can see angels, there are so many instances found in scripture it can't be missed if one reads the bible. 

But why would one "guess"?  Seems you are about as guilty of what you claim I am guilty of.

[OneLight]

21 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

The Bible SAYS the MK  is 1,000 years, plainly in Rev 20.  Several times.  I am NOT "filling in" where Scripture is silent.

But you are when you claim Jesus must rule from earth and that those who are alive and remain at the rapture never go to heaven.  Neither statements can be found in scripture, yet you claim them to be true.  That is the filling in the gaps I am talking about.

21 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Where does the Bible SAY that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven?  No where.  

Does the Bible clearly tell us WHEN the resurrection will occur?  Yes, at the Second Advent when Jesus returns to EARTH and reigns with a rod of iron over people for 1000 years.  

1 Thess 4:14-17, 2 Thess 2:1, 1 Cor 15:23

And once again we can agree that those who are resurrected in the rapture will always be with Jesus, as scripture comes right out and says that.  What it does not say is that those believers who are alive and remain at the time of the rapture never go to heaven, as you claim, yet they are always with Jesus.  So if they can never go to heaven, then the bi-product of what you are saying is that Jesus can never return to heaven either since they are always with Him.

[OneLight]

36 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

There is NO doubt that Jesus CAN "rule where He wants", but again, common sense and a functioning reason will agree that since those He rules will be ON earth, He will rule ON earth.  Does the Bible tell us that we need to breathe?  No.  It's obvious that we need to breathe.  I think your "arguments" are on that line of "reasoning".

I'm not arguing at all.  I'm asking you to provide scripture for statements you claim to be true, not statements you "believe" to be true (opinions).  There is a difference and trying to redirect the onus back to me won't work. 

You made claims you call truth and I ask for proof.  It really is that simple, yet we continue to go in the same circles after pages of discussion.  If there is proof, I'd love to read it in scripture.  If they are just a theory you have, that's fine too, but at least admit they are just a theory and not treat them as if they were facts from scripture without providing the scripture.  That would put an end to running in circles.

[OneLight]

48 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

The Bible SAYS the MK  is 1,000 years, plainly in Rev 20.  Several times.  I am NOT "filling in" where Scripture is silent.

Where does the Bible SAY that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven?  No where.  

Does the Bible clearly tell us WHEN the resurrection will occur?  Yes, at the Second Advent when Jesus returns to EARTH and reigns with a rod of iron over people for 1000 years.  

1 Thess 4:14-17, 2 Thess 2:1, 1 Cor 15:23

One indicator of the rapture is that it will happen at the last trumpet.  Yet, Jesus will not return until the very end of the great tribulation when all is finished, after the last bowl, which comes after the last trumpet.  How can this be unless the last trumpet is the last trumpet of the feast of trumpet, which some attest to?  If you look for the last time a trumpet is claimed to be blown in scripture it is the 7th trumpet of Revelation 11:15.

[OneLight]

49 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

OK, I guess some things are just not very obvious to you.  But the Bible wasn't written for the ones who demand, require, request, or want everything spelled out.  Didn't happen.

Well, what is obvious to me is that you call something true from scripture that is not stated in scripture.  That much is obvious.  If everyone treated scripture according to what seems obvious to them when it's not written, there would be as many theories as the sand in the sea, but we are not called to follow such theories, but the truth He has provided us through His word.

[OneLight]

44 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

OK.  And my human reasoning comes from my God given conscience, from Rom 2:14,15.  That's why God gave humanity the ability to know right from wrong.  

Romans 2 is talking about those who never heard of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or the bible, yet, know through His creation that God exists (Romans 1:18-21) and in their heart follow Him.

We are conformed to be like Christ through the Holy Spirit working with in us, not be human reasoning, including having the mind of Christ.

44 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Of course God is not limited to what humans are limited to.  That is a silly question.

How have I "limited God to time or space" as you charge?  Please quote me on that.

I've answered that question in a previous reply.  That's the problem when having so many replies in such a short time, we are now overlapping each others replies.

44 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I have given you much but you seem to need what doesn't need to be written.

You have given me your theology, which is not restricted to what is written in scripture.

44 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

How many kings do you know who rule their country from a far away country?

How many worldly kings are God?

[OneLight]

51 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

But why would one "guess"?  Seems you are about as guilty of what you claim I am guilty of.

I was addressing your humor, not scripture.  Nice try ...

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

But you are when you claim Jesus must rule from earth and that those who are alive and remain at the rapture never go to heaven.  Neither statements can be found in scripture, yet you claim them to be true.  That is the filling in the gaps I am talking about.

Did I say that Jesus "must rule" from earth?  I believe that He does because that is quite reasonable.  But you are free to believe that He WILL rule from anywhere.

Aren't you trying to "fill in the gaps" by suggesting that He could rule from heaven.

This isn't even a real debate anyway.  

"And once again we can agree that those who are resurrected in the rapture will always be with Jesus, as scripture comes right out and says that.  What it does not say is that those believers who are alive and remain at the time of the rapture never go to heaven, as you claim, yet they are always with Jesus.  So if they can never go to heaven, then the bi-product of what you are saying is that Jesus can never return to heaven either since they are always with Him."

What makes sense?  You believe that Jesus COULD rule from heaven.  OK.  Fine.  So what?  What does it matter where He rules EARTH from?  

I believe that the living believers won't see the 3rd heaven because there are no verses that even suggest that they will.  And I'm reasonable.  Certainly, they will remain with Jesus.  But if your suggestion that Jesus COULD rule from heaven, that would mean, from what Scripture says, is that ALL believers "will be with Him forever".  So who's watching "the store", so to speak?  Since the MK is ON earth, it only makes sense that Jesus will be ON earth and all believers with Him will be ON earth.

Your last sentence is a bit of a twist.  You are putting the emphasis on the wrong part.

Yes, believers will always be with Jesus forever.  If you can prove that Jesus WILL go to heaven during the MK, make your case.  If you can't there's no reason to even consider it.

There is no reason why Jesus would rule from heaven.  There is EVERY reason he will rule ON earth.