Could there be Multiple Raptures?

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Please show me where they ar said to be raptured.  Even scholars aren't sure who the 24 are.  So how can you be sure?

And they never acknowledge how the raptured LAST GENERATION ONLY is in heaven BEFORE the Lamb is slain and found in Heaven Himself 'worthy to open the sealed book'.  

[Michael37]

3 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

And they never acknowledge how the raptured LAST GENERATION ONLY is in heaven BEFORE the Lamb is slain and found in Heaven Himself 'worthy to open the sealed book'.  

That's because there's no need to. What John was shown is a disclosure of Divine Destiny . . . symbolic, metaphorical, spiritual, and composite. Try to impose temporal values on eternal fixtures if you must, but don't expect spiritual growth from doing so. 

Blessings from Michael37 

[FreeGrace]

24 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I said:  "

No, I don't consider that possibility.  When Jesus gave the account of a rich man and a poor man named Lazarus in Luke 16 He said that Lazarus was carried by angels to Abraham's bosom.  I have no reason to think that when believers die, they will ascend to heaven all alone.  And Heb 1:14 says that angels are sent to serve the saved.  I am looking forward to be escorted to heaven by angels.  What a marvelous journey."

Why not?

Why not what?  My comment was in regard to how believers get to heaven when they die.

24 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

How can that NOT be in a glorified body when we read
35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up?

[How come the double click works on first paragraph but then fails after that??

I don't understand your question and why add v.35 to John 14:1-6?  v.35 is about THE resurrection of the saved.  And Paul is simply offering a question that many will or have asked.  So he explains it.  But I don't see how any of that has anything to do with John 14:1-6.]

and with what body do they come?
NOTICE the question WASN'T EVEN IF resurrection happened in a body at all, the question was WHAT KIND of body is resurrected. 
So my question is, when did RETURNING for a glorified body come about? and WHERE in Scripture do I find that.

[1 Cor 15 is the "go to" chapter on resurrection of the saved.] 

You say you assume nothing, so what VERSES tell us 'spirits return for glorified bodies'?  IF there aren't any then??

[We KNOW that our souls go to heaven.  Paul made that clear.  So that's what comes back with Jesus.  Rev 19 makes that clear.]

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

If SOW 'is birth', then how does that work HERE?

[Paul is simply explaining that one must DIE before they are resurrected.]

WHO is resurrected when Christ returns?  THE DEAD. 
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.

Paul answered your question and more.  He said the DEAD are resurrected and the living are CHANGED.  But, both get glorified immortal bodies.

iow, both get the same kind of body at the resurrection

[FreeGrace]

27 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I said this to another poster:  

Please show me where they ar said to be raptured.  Even scholars aren't sure who the 24 are.  So how can you be sure?

Your reply to me:

And they never acknowledge how the raptured LAST GENERATION ONLY is in heaven BEFORE the Lamb is slain and found in Heaven Himself 'worthy to open the sealed book'.  

The "last generation" aren't raptured.  There is no such thing.  The living believers when Jesus comes back will be gathered or caught up to the clouds in the air to meet THEM (dead believers from heaven and Jesus) in the air, and the "dead in Christ" will receive their resurrected body FIRST and then the living believers will be "changed in a twinkle of the eye (1 Cor 15:52).

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

How strange: Paul wrote of a coming for His Bride, before wrath and before the Day of the Lord. That is one more coming - his SECOND coming. In Revelation that would be before the 6th seal start of wrath. It would also be before the 7th seal start of the 70th week.

Jesus and John in Revelation tells us of a coming after wrath and after the tribulation: a coming to the battle of Armageddon. This will be His third coming. 

Therefore I find you in error: the bible clearly shows Him coming twice more. This is why multiplied millions of believers are pre-trib believers.

How can the 7th seal start the 70th week when at the 6th seal we learn
 

12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great
 earthquake;



and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,

Sackcloth is FOR MOURNING.  Why would the 'sun' go into morning WHEN CHRIST RETURNS? Wouldn't it go into mourning  at a time more like 'woe to the earth... for the devil is come down...'


and the moon became as blood;

WHEN does the moon become as blood?  BEFORE the day of the Lord. Just like Satan comes BEFORE the day of the Lord, not on the day of the Lord but BEFORE, just like the man of sin is revealed BEFORE 'the brightness of Christ' comes and destroys him. 

We know the sun DOES go dark when Christ DOES return but WHAT would make the sun 'go dark' (but not go into mourning)? 

A LIGHT BRIGHTER than it.  That is the return of Christ.  That is why the MOON can't give light when Christ returns as the moon becomes DARK in comparison to the brightness of Christ.  

IF the BRIGHTNESS of Christ DESTROYS Satan when He returns,

how does He STOP that brightness from destroying evil on earth 'pre trib'? 

If we are told He is to sit on the right hand of the Father UNTIL all enemies made footstool,
how does Christ leave the right hand of God before the war in heaven ends?  Wouldn't that be a REQUIREMENT for PRE TRIB to even work?  Does He disobey and go to work BEFORE enemies are made his footstool?   


13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

kind of like 'Satan and angels cast to earth'
 

14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

kind of like when they will receive their 'kingdoms' for an hour

15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

And we know that this is all taking place in the 6th and not the 7th because 

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.



WHEN does GODS WRATH come? 

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Yes, it does.

If you don't want to discuss this any further, please just say so and I will move on, as this does not help with understanding. 

I have come to find this usually means it is time for me to end the discussion before I upset and it ends anyhow, just in a negative way.

 

 

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I think this passage is frequently abused as a passage about a pretrip rapture.  But it isn't.  When Jesus said all this, He hadn't died yet.  So v.2 is about WHEN He will die.  He will go to heaven, where He will prepare a place for His disciples.  

Now, v.3 is a promise that Jesus will come again.  (Second Advent, not pretrib rapture).  To "receive you to Myself" would refer to when ALL believers are gathered together in the clouds in the air, resurrected and glorified.

A big problem with that is they would NOT have followed Him to be where HE IS, and HE TOLD US where He was going, HE GOES TO BE WITH THE FATHER.  He told us we know the way, but they would INSTEAD have waited until He returned.  I guess no need to 'know the way' after all.

That doesn't work with WHAT IS WRITTEN.  We don't get to assume and speculate.  What is written is what is truth.  Believers FOLLOW HIM to heaven.  We sow a natural body and are raised a spiritual body.  We are raised in glory, we are raised in power and when we return with Him we sit upon thrones, we don't come back to the earth to receive glory.   



But I think I understand.  It's the pre trib confusion that sits upon all the words of God.  Not a word written.  Goes against what we are told to do and what to expect.  Has Jesus disobeying God.  Doesn't us allow us to pick up our cross and follow Him.  Doesn't allow for our death to glorify God.  Doesn't leave anyone here for 10 day trial.  Divides the chuch and a house divided can not stand.  GOD is SENDING 2 witnesses MEN, who will be killed.  Taking us out MAKES NO SENSE.  He tells us those who 'TEACH my children to fly' aren't going to fair well.  He even tells us it will come forth from a woman.  The spies who caused the 40 years in the wilderness didn't TRUST GOD to be able to take care of them.  David was a man after Gods own heart BECAUSE HE STOOD up to what seem to be an unbeatable giant with just his FAITH and a sling shot and stone (s).  We are told to stand and proclaim the truth, not look to escape.  A wedding in heaven when Satan is cast to the earth and there is a trial coming upon the whole inhabited world is no less than ludicrous. 

BUT

THIS DOESN'T have anything to do with pre trib.  Pre trib WANTS to claim it, SO WE CAN'T TEACH ITs truth.   Pre trib SEEKS to destroy it.  And I must admit, it is doing a great job.  We fight against something not written AT the cost of the Truths that are.  I believe pre trib maybe the best 'device' used to bring confusion upon all of Gods word.  

Jesus died and was resurrected making it possible for the saved,(when death of their flesh body came), to NEVER have to go to hell/hades/the grave, like all those who had to under the Old Covenant.  We basically 'never die', just like Jesus said because this bodies death QUICKENS the seed for the new bodies existence, and we followed Him to heaven. No sin, no wages of sin to be paid, so when the flesh dies, we continue living AS a COMPLETE SOUL meaning body and all.  'spirit' is what animates a 'body' so our 'spirit' going to heaven is just another way to say our whole 'being', minus the old carcass, continues on in the next realm.  

WHEN we go to heaven, we REST from our labors meaning, we have ALREADY ATTAINED 'all the glory' we can receive.  We have already been made a new creature.  We have our citizenship in heaven already.  We become joint heirs and fellow servants.  We become like the angels who 'neither take or give in marriage' which we know requires 'a body'. We know from 1 Thess 4 that like Jesus died and rose EVEN SO US, and He brings us back with Him. 

There is a clue when speaking of 

John 21:19This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.


The church is not made up of 'gentiles' who go to a marriage while 'Israel' goes through 'tribulation' for what was done 2000 years ago.  Jesus came for the scattered sheep of the House of Israel and you can bet those sheep hear His voice.

Being KEPT from evil or the hour of temptation is to be watched and guarded over, nowhere in the words of God does it say or suggest in any way, the way to 'be watched and guarded over' is to be taken out of the picture, that is all of mans conclusions that they put forth as truth.  WHAT KEEPS FROM THE HOUR?  

"Because you have kept the word of the patient endurance of Me

 hupomoné: a remaining behind, a patient enduring

I also you will keep out

Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the inhabited world whole, to try those dwelling upon the earth. 

With the trial coming upon the WHOLE INHABITED WORLD, when Christ returns and the flesh of men from kings on down to slaves all become a feast for the birds,

WHO is left upon the earth?  Who is alive and remaining?  Those who join the Lord and the armies COMING TO earth to rule and reign.



 

15And out of HIS mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Try to work this out.  Everyone from kings on down to slaves are having their BODIES eaten by birds.  The remnant are slain.  They are ALL DEAD, meaning

THERE is not a SINGLE BAD GUY LEFT ALIVE 'in the flesh' upon the face of the earth.  Remember the trial comes upon the WHOLE INHABITED WORLD.

Now the alive and remaining are translated and join those in the clouds.

If the DEAD aka 'the kings on down to slaves' who are presently having their bodies feasted upon by the birds (what a great way to tell us these bodies CEASE to ever be needed for anything ever again and just as it is written go back to the dust from where they came)

ARE NOT RESURRECTED in, well, the only body left, the spiritual body (THANK GOD because Heaven has come to the earth) (yes, MORTAL because GOD can kill both body and soul in lake of fire, doesn't matter how 'incorruptible' they may appear)

WHO does Christ RULE OVER with a rod of Iron?   


APOLOGIES FOR GOING OFF TOPIC...



 

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I don't see how it doesn't work.  No believer has been given a resurrection body.  So ALL believers are waiting for theirs.  The "raised in a spiritual body" is simply a reference to the resurrection.  So, what problem do you see, specifically?

Yes.  But there are several accounts in the OT and numerous accounts in the gospels of people being "raised from the dead".  But because of Acts 26:23, Christ is the FIRST to receive a resurrected, glorifed and immortal body.  So you have to distinguish between a physical "resuscitation" from a resurrection with a glorified body.

One is on its way to BECOMING a carcass, the other HAS BECOME a carcass.  

Lazarus was ON HIS WAY but like Jesus said, 'a sickness not unto death', EVEN THOUGH everyone believed he was dead, it was all for the glory of God. 

So being resuscitated even having been pronounced dead, is not 'resurrected out from the dead. 

When THIS body has QUICKENED 'the bare grain', and that bare grain been GIVEN A BODY AS GOD SEES FIT, you can bet that is raised/resurrected in glory and though it may be incorruptible, we are only immortal by eating of the tree of life and being judged worthy of that is where our 'immortality' comes from, I believe.   

[farouk]

33 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

If you don't want to discuss this any further, please just say so and I will move on, as this does not help with understanding. 

I have come to find this usually means it is time for me to end the discussion before I upset and it ends anyhow, just in a negative way.

 

 

A big problem with that is they would NOT have followed Him to be where HE IS, and HE TOLD US where He was going, HE GOES TO BE WITH THE FATHER.  He told us we know the way, but they would INSTEAD have waited until He returned.  I guess no need to 'know the way' after all.

That doesn't work with WHAT IS WRITTEN.  We don't get to assume and speculate.  What is written is what is truth.  Believers FOLLOW HIM to heaven.  We sow a natural body and are raised a spiritual body.  We are raised in glory, we are raised in power and when we return with Him we sit upon thrones, we don't come back to the earth to receive glory.   



But I think I understand.  It's the pre trib confusion that sits upon all the words of God.  Not a word written.  Goes against what we are told to do and what to expect.  Has Jesus disobeying God.  Doesn't us allow us to pick up our cross and follow Him.  Doesn't allow for our death to glorify God.  Doesn't leave anyone here for 10 day trial.  Divides the chuch and a house divided can not stand.  GOD is SENDING 2 witnesses MEN, who will be killed.  Taking us out MAKES NO SENSE.  He tells us those who 'TEACH my children to fly' aren't going to fair well.  He even tells us it will come forth from a woman.  The spies who caused the 40 years in the wilderness didn't TRUST GOD to be able to take care of them.  David was a man after Gods own heart BECAUSE HE STOOD up to what seem to be an unbeatable giant with just his FAITH and a sling shot and stone (s).  We are told to stand and proclaim the truth, not look to escape.  A wedding in heaven when Satan is cast to the earth and there is a trial coming upon the whole inhabited world is no less than ludicrous. 

BUT

THIS DOESN'T have anything to do with pre trib.  Pre trib WANTS to claim it, SO WE CAN'T TEACH ITs truth.   Pre trib SEEKS to destroy it.  And I must admit, it is doing a great job.  We fight against something not written AT the cost of the Truths that are.  I believe pre trib maybe the best 'device' used to bring confusion upon all of Gods word.  

Jesus died and was resurrected making it possible for the saved,(when death of their flesh body came), to NEVER have to go to hell/hades/the grave, like all those who had to under the Old Covenant.  We basically 'never die', just like Jesus said because this bodies death QUICKENS the seed for the new bodies existence, and we followed Him to heaven. No sin, no wages of sin to be paid, so when the flesh dies, we continue living AS a COMPLETE SOUL meaning body and all.  'spirit' is what animates a 'body' so our 'spirit' going to heaven is just another way to say our whole 'being', minus the old carcass, continues on in the next realm.  

WHEN we go to heaven, we REST from our labors meaning, we have ALREADY ATTAINED 'all the glory' we can receive.  We have already been made a new creature.  We have our citizenship in heaven already.  We become joint heirs and fellow servants.  We become like the angels who 'neither take or give in marriage' which we know requires 'a body'. We know from 1 Thess 4 that like Jesus died and rose EVEN SO US, and He brings us back with Him. 

There is a clue when speaking of 

John 21:19This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.


The church is not made up of 'gentiles' who go to a marriage while 'Israel' goes through 'tribulation' for what was done 2000 years ago.  Jesus came for the scattered sheep of the House of Israel and you can bet those sheep hear His voice.

Being KEPT from evil or the hour of temptation is to be watched and guarded over, nowhere in the words of God does it say or suggest in any way, the way to 'be watched and guarded over' is to be taken out of the picture, that is all of mans conclusions that they put forth as truth.  WHAT KEEPS FROM THE HOUR?  

"Because you have kept the word of the patient endurance of Me

 hupomoné: a remaining behind, a patient enduring

I also you will keep out

Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the inhabited world whole, to try those dwelling upon the earth. 

With the trial coming upon the WHOLE INHABITED WORLD, when Christ returns and the flesh of men from kings on down to slaves all become a feast for the birds,

WHO is left upon the earth?  Who is alive and remaining?  Those who join the Lord and the armies COMING TO earth to rule and reign.



 

15And out of HIS mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Try to work this out.  Everyone from kings on down to slaves are having their BODIES eaten by birds.  The remnant are slain.  They are ALL DEAD, meaning

THERE is not a SINGLE BAD GUY LEFT ALIVE 'in the flesh' upon the face of the earth.  Remember the trial comes upon the WHOLE INHABITED WORLD.

Now the alive and remaining are translated and join those in the clouds.

If the DEAD aka 'the kings on down to slaves' who are presently having their bodies feasted upon by the birds (what a great way to tell us these bodies CEASE to ever be needed for anything ever again and just as it is written go back to the dust from where they came)

ARE NOT RESURRECTED in, well, the only body left, the spiritual body (THANK GOD because Heaven has come to the earth) (yes, MORTAL because GOD can kill both body and soul in lake of fire, doesn't matter how 'incorruptible' they may appear)

WHO does Christ RULE OVER with a rod of Iron?   


APOLOGIES FOR GOING OFF TOPIC...



 

Hi @DeighAnn I do find the subject of the rapture very encouraging, given that it is linked with the Lord's Supper in 1 Cor. 11.26............

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

There will be no "rapture".  All believers will be resurrected/changed "when He comes" which is the Second Advent.

Please quote the verse or verses where Paul describes the event called "the rapture", which means Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.  Thank you.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.
"Rapture" comes from the Latin word, "rapturo." It only means a catching up. If you deny the catching up, then you are denying scripture.

Some people imagine, after we are caught up, that we make a u-turn and come right back down. Others think we will then be escorted to heaven. I am in the heaven camp. 
 

WE get the catching up from Paul. He wrote that the rapture or catching up would come just before wrath. I personally believe the rapture will trigger the start of the Day of the Lord and the start of God's wrath.

If we look in Revelation, we find the start of the Day at the 6th seal. Since the tribulation does not begin in Revelation until the 7th seal, that is why I believe the rapture will be pretrib: that is what John wrote.

In John 14, we read that Jesus went to build homes for His bride - the common thing a groom at His time would do. Then it is clearly written that He would come and get His bride - another very common thing a groom would do in His day.

Then He said, that "where I am, there will you be also."  Where am Jesus all during the tribulation or 70th week? He remains in heaven. That means the Bride is there in heaven with Him. No one can prove from John 14 that Jesus will NOT take us to heaven, although many imagine He will not.

It is my guess - and it is an educated guess, having read Hebrews 9:28, which tells us that Jesus will appear to those who are LOOKING for Him, that those who do not believe in the rapture will be left behind. There is a flip side to this verse that hints strongly that if someone is NOT looking for His coming, He will NOT appear to them.

This verse speaks of His "second" coming, which coming fits Paul's writing in first Thessalonians.  This is NOT His coming to Armageddon, for the timing is wrong and the purpose is wrong. I believe His coming to Armageddon will be His THIRD coming. Just saying...

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How can the 7th seal start the 70th week when at the 6th seal we learn
 

12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great
 earthquake;



and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,

Sackcloth is FOR MOURNING.  Why would the 'sun' go into morning WHEN CHRIST RETURNS? Wouldn't it go into mourning  at a time more like 'woe to the earth... for the devil is come down...'


and the moon became as blood;

WHEN does the moon become as blood?  BEFORE the day of the Lord. Just like Satan comes BEFORE the day of the Lord, not on the day of the Lord but BEFORE, just like the man of sin is revealed BEFORE 'the brightness of Christ' comes and destroys him. 

We know the sun DOES go dark when Christ DOES return but WHAT would make the sun 'go dark' (but not go into mourning)? 

A LIGHT BRIGHTER than it.  That is the return of Christ.  That is why the MOON can't give light when Christ returns as the moon becomes DARK in comparison to the brightness of Christ.  

IF the BRIGHTNESS of Christ DESTROYS Satan when He returns,

how does He STOP that brightness from destroying evil on earth 'pre trib'? 

If we are told He is to sit on the right hand of the Father UNTIL all enemies made footstool,
how does Christ leave the right hand of God before the war in heaven ends?  Wouldn't that be a REQUIREMENT for PRE TRIB to even work?  Does He disobey and go to work BEFORE enemies are made his footstool?   


13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

kind of like 'Satan and angels cast to earth'
 

14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

kind of like when they will receive their 'kingdoms' for an hour

15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

And we know that this is all taking place in the 6th and not the 7th because 

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.



WHEN does GODS WRATH come? 

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Have you ever heard of solar and lunar eclipses?

Did you ever read in Genesis that the sun and moon are for signs?