Ok, ACTS 4:11 PROVES that Peter is NOT "the rock" and, in fact, he said so himself

[Dennis1209]

7 hours ago, Not of the World said:

A rock?

High places are a frequent theme in the Bible for Pagan worship spots, and Mount Hermon peaks are the highest in the boundaries of Israel.

Were Nimrod and the people in Shinar on LSD building a tower trying to reach heaven? To paraphrase, God said they would accomplish it unless it were stopped. The Bible speaks of doors opening to heaven several times, and we might say gates or portals opened into another dimension in our terminology. I believe this is what they were going to accomplish.

A study of the following two verses is quite interesting:

Genesis 10:8 (KJV) And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. 9. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. [emphasis added]

Today the ruins of a Baal shrine temple and the cave remain. Throughout antiquity, the Jews believed Baal Hermon was the spot the 200 Watchers descended to (Gen. 6:1-4). We get additional historical details of some of their names and as “Watchers” from I Enoch and other pseudepigrapha.

That cave was widely considered to be the gate to Hell. Mount Herman and area (Bashan) was a stronghold of the Nephilim for centuries. It was the territory of Og of Bashan and the northern limit of the conquests of Joshua.

Most scholars believe this is the spot the transfiguration occurred. Looking at a map of Israel when Jesus walked the earth, questions arise. Why did Jesus select this exact spot, roughly 18 miles NNE from Caesarea Philippi as the crow flies, in the wilderness out in the middle of nowhere?

Conforming to Jewish law, three witnesses watched Jesus’s transfiguration (Peter, James, and John); why not the rest of the disciples?

I suspect this was an in-your-face moment, a poke to Satan’s eye. Jesus declared His forthcoming victory on the Cross and the coming establishment of His church.

It all can be related to the first prophecy in the Bible:

Genesis 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

That is how I view it anyway.

[Roymond]

On 11/18/2022 at 11:15 PM, Not of the World said:

 

ACTS 4:8-12

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers of the people and elders,

9 if we are being examined today concerning a good deed done to a crippled man, by what means this man has been healed,

10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead--by him this man is standing before you well.

11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.

12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Interesting, but this uses a totally different Greek word than what Jesus uses for Peter or for what He'll build His church on.  The one used about Peter generally means bedrock or other stone large and solid enough to be a foundation, while the one here tends to indicate a quarry stone cut to a rough or finished state.  The imagery of the two is also different, one being something that is just there and not due to human action, the other being something supplied for use.

Just BTW, it should be noted that there is no "stone" in "cornerstone, the Greek says "head of the corner" -- which is either a stone set first in a corner  and on which both walls that touch it depend, or a "keystone" which is a stone placed last in a structure and serves to keep it all standing. 

[I've always liked the second one because Peter calls them "builders", implying that they've been working on erecting something -- but then they reject the stone that's supposed to hold it all together, so all their work went for nothing.]

[Roymond]

On 11/19/2022 at 12:57 AM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Good point! Usually I hear people using and argument from Greek that stresses different Greek words, only the lines of "Peter, you are a pebble, and upon this slab of rock (me) I will build my church. That would be an amplified paraphrase sort of approach, but I think yours in more on target.

Some will say that they aren't even two different words:  they're the same word, just one used with a feminine ending and one with a masculine ending.  The use of these two genders diverged over time, in fact Josephus clearly uses them differently, as did some more classical Greek writers, so we know they were treated as distinct words at the time the Evangelists wrote.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Roymond
corrected myself

[Roymond]

On 11/19/2022 at 4:56 AM, Mr. M said:

There is an element of foreshadowing here with both the name change, and the stone motif as well.

Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone,

and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.

The stone represents the permanence of every promise for the one who overcomes,

that inherit eternal life.

 

Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,

and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

2 Corinthians 1:

20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. 

21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 

22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

The stone is not a common rock, put a precious stone, a gem-stone.

Malachi 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels;

and I will spare them, as a man spares his own son that serves him.

Zechariah 9:16 And the Lord their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people:

for they shall be as the stones of a crown (jewels), lifted up as an ensign upon his land.

So why the change, you ask? It would seem that our name written in the Lamb's

book of Life is not the One given to us by our parents.

1 Corinthians 15:

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;

nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound,

and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 

54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality,

then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Hebrews 6:

11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, 

12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

I would now speak more generally and say that the biggest stumbling block that I have observed

for discipleship is the tendency to employ 'worldly wisdom', i.e. conventional academic study

methods, which tries to break everything down topically rather than see the revelation of

One Truth In Christ.

Acts 20:27 For I have not avoided declaring to you the whole counsel of God.

"I will give him a white stone"

This illustrates one of the issues of doing serious study with a translation:  the word translated as "stone" in the Revelation passage is completely different from either Peter's speech in Acts or Jesus' statement in Matthew -- there are three different words.  The one here refers to a stone or shard of pottery used for a ballot or a verdict; in the case of a ballot, a white one meant approval, and in the case of a verdict a white one meant the accused was cleared of guilt.  In the latter, a verdict, the importance of a new name was that there would be no trace at all of any accusation; having a new name made the one cleared of guilt a new person.

These multiple meanings aren't uncommon in the New Testament; the original audience would have recognized all those meanings at once.  Here they make a gold mine of Gospel, but unfortunately the passage isn't connected at all to the others under consideration.

[Roymond]

 

On 11/19/2022 at 6:42 AM, Dennis1209 said:

I agree, but as Paul Harvey said, “now, the rest of the story.” I suspect there is much more than meets the eye here to consider.

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Rather than espouse a long narrative of my thoughts, I will ask some questions. Who, what, where, and why to consider for the big picture:

·         Who were the only four there, and why not thirteen?

·         What was there at that exact spot when Jesus spoke the above that is still there today?

·         What did the Jews believe about the history of that location?

·         What occurred at this exact location?

·         Where were Jesus’s feet touching when He said this?

When those questions are answered, we get a better insight.

"Only four"?  Are we still talking about Peter's declaration about Jesus?  All the disciples were there!

Edited December 16, 2022 by Roymond
removed accidental repetition

[Wayne222]

I agree brother. Peter was not the rock. And in 1 cor 10 it says the spiritual rock follow them and that rock was Christ. They have misapplied scripture in making Peter the rock. Good post.

[Your closest friendnt]

4 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

I agree brother. Peter was not the rock. And in 1 cor 10 it says the spiritual rock follow them and that rock was Christ. They have misapplied scripture in making Peter the rock. Good post.

Who was chosen to preached the Gospel in Jerusalem for the first time...the first believers at the day when the Holy Spirit had  baptized Peter and all other in the day of Penticost....the first Gospel message from Spirit filled disciples...Peter as the Corner stone to people who were under the Law who the believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ the forgivenes of their sins in the name of Jesus...

When Peter was sent to Cornelius family pure Gentiles..

The first time Peter preached the Gospel to Gentiles, the forgiveness of sins in the name of Jesus and believed and God poured the Holy Spirit upon them as in the day of Penticost...He preached the Gospel to uncircumcised Gentiles. 

Amen....Peter put the cornerstone in place for the church of Jesus Christ...both believers from the Law of Moses and Gentiles as they were uncircumcised...

The church of Jesus Christ...consist of both groups...one church forgiveness of sins for both groups as they were...

Peter preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ to both groups...forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ name...for both groups as they were...one church united in having their sins forgiven in the same way, in the name of Jesus. The church of Jesus Christ...one church consisting of both groups...who believed in Jesus Christ..Peter the first one to give the message to people as they were and invited them to believe  

[Wayne222]

1 minute ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Who was chosen to preached the Gospel in Jerusalem for the first time...the first believers at the day when the Holy Spirit had  baptized Peter and all other in the day of Penticost....the first Gospel message from Spirit filled disciples...Peter as the Corner stone to people who were under the Law who the believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ the forgivenes of their sins in the name of Jesus...

When Peter was sent to Cornelius family pure Gentiles..

The first time Peter preached the Gospel to Gentiles, the forgiveness of sins in the name of Jesus and believed and God poured the Holy Spirit upon them as in the day of Penticost...He preached the Gospel to uncircumcised Gentiles. 

Amen....Peter put the cornerstone in place for the church of Jesus Christ...both believers from the Law of Moses and Gentiles as they were uncircumcised...

The church of Jesus Christ...consist of both groups...one church forgiveness of sins for both groups as they were...

Peter preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ to both groups...forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ name...for both groups as they were...one church united in having their sins forgiven in the same way, in the name of Jesus. The church of Jesus Christ...one church consisting of both groups...who believed in Jesus Christ..Peter the first one to give the message to people as they were and invited them to believe  

Hi.      Peter was the first according to acts to preach. But why do you call him the cornerstone ?

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Hi.      Peter was the first according to acts to preach. But why do you call him the cornerstone ?

Jesus said to him....Peter did not asked...that upon you I will build my church and he named him Petros...from Petra...

Stone upon which they use to build a house in the foundational stone and is called cornerstone...

Is the foundation stone...that holds the house together and does not move.  

Peter preached the Gospel of Jesus....the Holy Spirit moved Peter to preached the Gospel in Jerusalem and to the Cornelius family Gentiles unsircumsizes Gentiles...in the church of Jesus Christ...

Never done before and not a accepted by other disciples but Jesus said they are included in his church...

Jesus said that he show to Peter how to preach the Gospel to Roman's Greeks and other Gentiles....they are other ways every church has adapted...but if someone preaches the way of Peter please do not say that their sins are not forgiven.   Peter was not in control when he said to them that "Jesus has died for your sins also" as he never has said these words to Uncircumcised Gentiles before and never before in our knowledge with Jesus pouring the Holy Spirit upon them with the same power like in the day of Penticost that made Peter recognized that the Holy Spirit was in control and was teaching him something...

This is why Jesus called him the stone upon he will build his church...the way Peter preached the Gospel...

Ok let's just not call him the corner stone and just say the stone .   They way Peter brought in the church of Jesus Christ all people as they were as he found them...

Jesus is the foundation stone of God's house and Peter is the disciple Jesus choose to preach the Gospel to those who gave their vote to go on and kill Jesus... and the Gospel to the Nation who did the crusifiction.. Jesus forgave them both and were the first of the believing groups in his Gospel ....no dividers among them by God...only by men and their cultures. 

Our sins are forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ...the Christ of God, the Son of God.

The Lord and the Judge of all...

But Jesus gave authority to Peter to forgive the sins...of those who have sin ...the believers sins ...please do not ask questions about that Because I am sure that Jesus taught him the specifics.

Peter also forgive the sins of unbelievers who sin against him or perhaps others... but not to substitute their need to believe in God...but just to hold back what we call the need for Jesus to be involved in those situations. 

Stephen forgave those who stone him to death. Wishing that they believe and be Saved.  

If someone does not want or is not ready to forgive someone and there some situations where this is very difficult to be done.. not a big deal as long we do not take justice in our own hands...those situations are very sensitive and we need to learn to forgive and sometimes it will be necessary not to be in a hurry and encourage the wrong behavior if we can call it that or the wrong example. 

Peter did not forgive Ananias and his wife and he spoke death to them and they die.  As believers hope you understand that...now I cannot say that if he was guided by the Holy Spirit or not....in the Temple he spoke the words for the beggar to get well and the sins of his fathers who were upon him were forgiven.  He was not a believer....and many people tried to take advantage of the power of the Holy Spirit upon him that his shadow when fall upon them healed them...it does not mean they were believers ...they show him as a healed.   They may believe in Jesus later...

I know of a Hindu woman who was healed because she show Jesus as a healer. And she asked Jesus to heal her after her Gods and some other Gods failed to heal her... 

And then the missionaries went to her village to speak about Jesus Christ  

God bless...

No need to say anything contrary because of what Rome says about Peter to no want to read careful what Jesus said just to oppose what they say...we have to thank God that we have come to understand better things about Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Heavenly Father...God bless. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[Selah7]

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Who was chosen to preached the Gospel in Jerusalem for the first time...the first believers at the day when the Holy Spirit had  baptized Peter and all other in the day of Penticost....the first Gospel message from Spirit filled disciples...Peter as the Corner stone to people who were under the Law who the believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ the forgivenes of their sins in the name of Jesus...

When Peter was sent to Cornelius family pure Gentiles..

The first time Peter preached the Gospel to Gentiles, the forgiveness of sins in the name of Jesus and believed and God poured the Holy Spirit upon them as in the day of Penticost...He preached the Gospel to uncircumcised Gentiles. 

Amen....Peter put the cornerstone in place for the church of Jesus Christ...both believers from the Law of Moses and Gentiles as they were uncircumcised...

The church of Jesus Christ...consist of both groups...one church forgiveness of sins for both groups as they were...

Peter preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ to both groups...forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ name...for both groups as they were...one church united in having their sins forgiven in the same way, in the name of Jesus. The church of Jesus Christ...one church consisting of both groups...who believed in Jesus Christ..Peter the first one to give the message to people as they were and invited them to believe  

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

- Matthew 16:15-18 (KJV)

Peter knew without a doubt that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God.  Jesus is telling Peter that it was Almighty God that revealed this truth to him through the Holy Spirit. 

Jesus has given Simon a new name—Peter, which means Rock. The Rock is the foundation that the church is built on, and that Rock is Jesus Christ. It is on the Rock of Jesus Christ that His church will be built.

Jesus Christ was foretold as the "foundation-stone" In Isaiah 28:16:

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

- Isaiah 28:16 (KJV)