Why is Ekklesia still translated as "Church?"

[Alive]

I am being confused with another. This subject is being discussed in two OPs.

LOL

[Mr. M]

4 minutes ago, Alive said:

I am being confused with another. This subject is being discussed in two OPs.

LOL

So can we make our peace with the word Church, if we can agree to making the correct reference?

Hebrews 12:

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,

to an innumerable company of angels, 

23 to the general assembly and church (ekklesia) of the firstborn who are registered in heaven,

to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.

[Alive]

5 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

So can we make our peace with the word Church, if we can agree to making the correct reference?

Hebrews 12:

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,

to an innumerable company of angels, 

23 to the general assembly and church (ekklesia) of the firstborn who are registered in heaven,

to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.

I am not sure what distinction you are wanting to communicate to me, that has not already been laid out.

is it that the Greek has been variously translated? If so, that is a given---all who study are aware of this across diffeent translations.

The great thing is--we have the original texts to look at. Or more correctly stated, the various textual documents from which the translations are derived.

[Mr. M]

3 minutes ago, Alive said:

I am not sure what distinction you are wanting to communicate to me, that has not already been laid out.

Just quoting the scripture to support that the church is one body in the Spirit,

regardless of a physical place or time for gathering together, as you have stated. 

I would also add this:

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood,

to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

As we continue in our endeavor:

Ephesians 4:

3 Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling;

For the Body without the Spirit is dead.

[Vine Abider]

52 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

 

I was under the impression that you were advocating for using Assembly or Congregation.

I was only addressing what can become confusing in using those terms. 

Yes, I am advocating that.  Not on a mission per se, as I don't feel the Lord leading me to do that.  But don't you think it would be so much simpler if they just translated ekklesia into something that is at least closer to the real meaning than church?

The point is, those that those who translated it into church had a political or controlling agenda for doing so, and now we live with the results of their action.

[Mr. M]

1 minute ago, Vine Abider said:

The point is, those that those who translated it into church had a political or controlling agenda for doing so, and now we live with the results of their action.

I have never experienced the burden of a political or controlling agenda. , in spite of growing up Roman Catholic.

I walked away as I was free to do so. In other countries, this could be radically different.

I understand your concerns though, particularly as it affects the viewpoint of the lost, who are misguided.

And yet I have known so many people who tried to get through to others, neighbors, family etc...they considered lost

by inviting them "to church". The result is that the witness of that church determines the effectiveness of the Gospel reach.

That is something we do now live with as a result. That can be good or bad, depending on the Spirit manifesting

in those meetings. In the end, the Word of Christ will out.

John 13:35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

[Vine Abider]

3 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

I have never experienced the burden of a political or controlling agenda. , in spite of growing up Roman Catholic.

I walked away as I was free to do so. In other countries, this could be radically different.

I understand your concerns though, particularly as it affects the viewpoint of the lost, who are misguided.

And yet I have known so many people who tried to get through to others, neighbors, family etc...they considered lost

by inviting them "to church". The result is that the witness of that church determines the effectiveness of the Gospel reach.

That is something we do now live with as a result. That can be good or bad, depending on the Spirit manifesting

in those meetings. In the end, the Word of Christ will out.

John 13:35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

Yes, it's another one of those "mixture" things, like Christmas.  Now we just hope and pray that the real Good News gets through all the other stuff!

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

 

I was under the impression that you were advocating for using Assembly or Congregation.

I was only addressing what can become confusing in using those terms. 

Hi M. You have pasted from quote envelopes which gives the wrong author. It's a mistake most make at some time. Unfortunately it causes confusion and replies of "I didn't say that". Not the end of the world, though...

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Hi M. You have pasted from quote envelopes which gives the wrong author. It's a mistake most make at some time. Unfortunately it causes confusion and replies of "I didn't say that". Not the end of the world, though...

And actually, the end of (this) world will be glorious!  Just sayin . . . 

[Dennis1209]

Good afternoon, Vine Abider,

That is a refreshing topic I do not recall being discussed before. That is a good question you pose, and I believe it has been taken advantage of. Yes, many instances can be misleading using the word “church.” As one example, the early church met underground, sometimes in people’s homes, to escape persecution. The building is not usually physically mobile.

The separation of church-state income and control: We know the history starting with Constantine in the 4^th century that has filtered down. As you correctly identify, a church is nothing but a building, an official place to assemble collectively and congregate.

Here in America, we have the fallacy of separation of church and state. Is that the separation of a building and government?

Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.^[1]

How does one tax, muzzle, or control a select group named an ekklesia without a brick & mortar establishment?  We have seen the control of government(s) exercising laws against churches prohibiting the free exercise thereof, muzzling, fining and jailing dissenters under a false flag (Covid). How would it be enforced if the ekklesia were not a stationary church?

Abridging the freedom of speech: True, a church does not have to participate, but under the 501C3 tax exemption, 1^st Amendment rights are muzzled. Is that muzzling the church building or ekklesia?

 

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^[1] The Constitution of the United States of America. elecronic ed. Oak Harbor WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1998. Print.