Reconciling 6 Days with 13.7 Billion Years

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, BeyondET said:

And you never will meet.

Became a wasteland from a collision is fine.

Actually, God didn't give ANY details about HOW the earth became a wasteland.  Now you are into theory.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Philologos said:

What does the word ‘eres mean in this verse? There are seven different translations in descending order of frequency: land, earth, country, ground, world, way, common, field, nations, wilderness. Our definition of ‘earth’ as “planet” has only been used since the 15th century. These manuscripts used that word before anyone ever referred to the whole planet as “earth.” These ‘translations’ are all the same word, not much to distinguish them from one another… which one is correct? All? Any of them?
Before we continue with hayah, I’d like to verify the intended meaning of ‘eres in each of these, since the focus is on the ‘eres and its status upon the arrival of the Spirit of God.

The word "planet" is irrelevant to this discussion.  It is about the earth, which God created per Gen 1:1.  And Isa 45:18 says He didn't create the earth a wasteland.

So "earth" is a good translation of 'eres'.  

And we don't need to "continue with hayah" since the most common translation in the OT is "became/become", and "was" occurs only 4% of the time.

[JimmyB]

12 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Except, the "was" in v.2 should be "became" because that is the most common translation of that EXACT VERB FORM (59%)  It is translated as "was" in only 4% of the time.  

And you are correct that 'tohu' does mean "complete chaos".  It is also translated as "waste", "wasteland" and "waste place" elsewhere in the OT.

And Isa 45:18 plainly says that "God did not create the earth tohu".  So if God created the earth as a complete chaos, then that contradicts isa 45:18.
 

So, the earth became a complete chaos.  It wasn't created that way.

In every single translation listed on biblegateway.com -- and there are 55 by my count -- it is translated "was" every single time.  It is very rare to have every single translation have the. same verb.  I believe the  unanimous translation of the verb "was", not "became".

Edited June 28, 2023 by JimmyB

[Philologos]

23 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

And we don't need to "continue with hayah" since the most common translation in the OT is "became/become"

I never disagreed with that, but you’ve been so hyper-focused on it, you didn’t understand my initial question, which was why be so hyper-focused on it if you can’t explain why. 
Brother, I do know why. I was trying to get you to see that there was a reason for it. If you don’t want to go beyond that, I’m good. 

I'm off this topic. 🙊

[BeyondET]

50 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Actually, God didn't give ANY details about HOW the earth became a wasteland.  Now you are into theory.

You haven't shown what your into, other than contradicting anything anyone says.

Edited June 28, 2023 by BeyondET

[teddyv]

24 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

You haven't shown what your into, other than contradicting anything anyone says.

My guess is ruin-reconstruction.

[DeighAnn]

Everything that IS, was spoken by God, making everything that is and every process of everything, a LAW OF GOD.  

Science, the pursuit of finding out 'WHAT WORDS' God used to speak into existence 'the works'

while Theology is the pursuit of finding the TRUTH contained in 'THE WORDS God spoke.

SCIENCE AT LEAST, is willing to make CHANGES to whatever 'they know' whenever someone comes forth with NEW EVIDENCE that proves present knowledge wrong

while Theology, NO MATTER WHAT is presented to REFUTE the 'errors', just keeps on keeping on with them. 

 

Just like NATURE/science proves there was 'an age' PREVIOUS to this one,

so do the WORDS of God.  




THINGS THAT CAN'T BE EXPLAINED WITHOUT AN age PREVIOUS TO THIS ONE

and YEC CANT EVEN contemplate without the paralyzing fear of current beliefs being proved inaccurate

and also tosses 'evolution' out the door (why the LACK of HUMAN SKELTONS doesn't is beyond me)


DEMANDING/teaching/preaching the 'earth' is 15,000 years old instead of millions of years old is what has ALLOWED the 'theories' like those of DARWIN and/or evolution to come forth and take hold

since the Churches teach AGAINST all common sense they bring into question the TRUTH of Gods words. 

 It has been shown AGAIN AND AGAIN  IT IS WRITTEN

GOD SAID HE DIDN'T CREATE IT 'tohu'


Yet, and ONLY in order TO KEEP 'beliefs' CONTRARY to WHAT IS WRITTEN,

 MANS puts forth HIS OWN assumptions, conclusions, conjectures ect.,

AND MAKE 

'DARKNESS AND CHAOS' AND/OR 'EVOLUTION'

A PART OF GODS PROCESS

even though

GOD never says anything of the sort.  



The WORDS OF GOD contain VERSES that speak OF A TIME previous to this,

WHEN earth was inhabited 

and then showing EARTH BECOMING TOHU.  

HOW can anyone IGNORE THAT? So, again, in hope 



1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: RV12


4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

9When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

DOES THIS DARKNESS COME ACROSS AS 'WASTE AND VOID'???

10And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,

11And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

12Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;

13That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

14It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

15And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken. JB38

12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. EZ 28

 

18Thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee; this is thy wickedness, because it is bitter, because it reacheth unto thine heart.

19My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.

20Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.

21How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?

22For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

23I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

29The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.

30And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.

31For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers. Jer 4


2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. RV12

 

[BeyondET]

1 hour ago, teddyv said:

My guess is ruin-reconstruction.

That's not out of the question its possible.

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Philologos said:

I never disagreed with that, but you’ve been so hyper-focused on it, you didn’t understand my initial question, which was why be so hyper-focused on it if you can’t explain why. 
Brother, I do know why. I was trying to get you to see that there was a reason for it. If you don’t want to go beyond that, I’m good. 

I'm off this topic. 🙊

Of course there is a reason for being "so hyper-focused" on the particular verb form of hayah.  It shows that the earth BECAME something that it wasn't created to be, unlike the traditional rendering, which contradicts Isa 45:18.

And I did understand and answer your initial question.

I don't know what it is that you think I don't want to go beyond.  

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, BeyondET said:

You haven't shown what your into, other than contradicting anything anyone says.

I don't know what you mean by accusing me that I "haven't shown what I'm into".  

I'm into the truth.  And the truth is that hayah is RARELY translated as "was" but most commonly translated as "became/become".  That's the truth.