Where are Believers when the Body Dies - immediately and ultimately?

[Vine Abider]

22 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So, you are saying that we, the Body of Christ as the `Temple` of the Holy Spirit will be in the New Jerusalem. You see that Paul is telling the Ephesians  (2: 19 - 22) that they are the `holy temple` in the Lord, and this matches the New Jerusalem. (Please correct me if I have misunderstood you there.)

1. The OT saints were never told they were the temple of the Holy Spirit, just that they had to look for a city. (Heb. 11: 16) Doesn`t seem to match with us being the (symbolic) temple.

2. Who are the nations on the new earth outside the NJ? 

`And the NATIONS of those who are saved shall walk in its (NJ) light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honour into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)   

 

Marilyn.

 

Responding to the bolded above - yes.  Why would what is written about the ekklesia in Ephesians be different than the culmination of the building in the New Jerusalem?

OIC - I think you are inferring that the NJ will be comprised of the new covenant saints (with Christ in them) and the nations will be old covenant ones . . . is that correct?

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Responding to the bolded above - yes.  Why would what is written about the ekklesia in Ephesians be different than the culmination of the building in the New Jerusalem?

OIC - I think you are inferring that the NJ will be comprised of the new covenant saints (with Christ in them) and the nations will be old covenant ones . . . is that correct?

Hi VA,

Thank you for your comments.

1. The ekklesia are the temple of the Holy Spirit, as you pointed out in Eph. 2: 21) However, did you notice that the NJ does NOT have a temple? (Rev. 21: 22)

2. Actually, I believe that all of God`s great kingdom from the highest, (third heaven) through the universal heavens and the earth are ALL under the new covenant for that is the Lord. Old has passed away in the NHNE.

So, who do you think these nations on the new earth will be?

Marilyn.  

[Vine Abider]

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

Thank you for your comments.

1. The ekklesia are the temple of the Holy Spirit, as you pointed out in Eph. 2: 21) However, did you notice that the NJ does NOT have a temple? (Rev. 21: 22)

2. Actually, I believe that all of God`s great kingdom from the highest, (third heaven) through the universal heavens and the earth are ALL under the new covenant for that is the Lord. Old has passed away in the NHNE.

So, who do you think these nations on the new earth will be?

Marilyn.  

Hey Marilyn - I don't know who the nations will be.   And yes re "no temple in it" as per Rev 21.

But thought of something here - I've heard that the measurement of the NJ is like 1200 miles cubed.  That puts the top way into outer space - suppose the top of it is in the 3rd heavens?  

[Daniel Marsh]

Paul says, to be with Christ.   In book of Rev, people are under the throne, thus we go to be with Jesus in Heaven.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Hey Marilyn - I don't know who the nations will be.   

 

Hi VA,

I would like to share what I have been taught by godly teachers. 

` After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with PALM BRANCHES in their hands. ` (Rev. 7: 9) 

Now, we know from God`s word that the palm branches were for the booths, the Tabernacles that were made in the wilderness. Thus, they represent the time of NHNE Tabernacle of God dwelling with people of the nations.

This great multitude that no one can number, (amazing) turn to God in the tribulation as they die of hunger, thirst and/or heat. (Rev. 7: 16) God in His great mercy receives them and eventually they will go upon the new earth.

`And the nations (great multitude) of those who are saved shall walk in its (Tabernacle of God,  Rev. 21: 3) light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honour into it. ` (Rev. 21: 24) 

Booths/Tabernacles - (Nehemiah 8: 13 - 16)

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Hey Marilyn - I don't know who the nations will be.   And yes re "no temple in it" as per Rev 21.

But thought of something here - I've heard that the measurement of the NJ is like 1200 miles cubed.  That puts the top way into outer space - suppose the top of it is in the 3rd heavens?  

Hi again VA,

The New Jerusalem details are all symbolic. Charles J. Rolls, a great Bible teacher from last century says -

The Tabernacle is for dwelling,

The Throne for ruling,

The Temple  for blessing.    (ref. His Glorious name. pg. 42 & 37)

Then he goes on to say concerning the Tabernacle -

In the sphere of typology, no figurative structure exists that expresses such a wide range of illumination and instruction as does the Tabernacle and its services. The highest and holiest resources of divine wisdom find expression in the multiplicity of parts and manifold ministries associated with it.

The distinguished model was a miniature in material form of Messiah`s many variegated ministries,.....

The entire structure had to be most carefully erected according to the divine pattern. Not a single loop or tache, of which there were two hundred on the innermost curtain alone, was left to human judgment or arrangement.

The Lord gave to Moses, in the plan revealed, a set of signs, symbols and shadows which comprised a fascinating forecast of the true substance, for the entire structure signified Christ and His ministry. The ritual portrayed the function of the priest, king, and prophet...

The Tabernacle in the wilderness gives us God`s purpose for the Lord in His function as (High) priest, king and prophet. 

Jesus is God`s Tabernacle - ` And the word became flesh and TABERNACLED among us...` (John 1: 14)

Thus, to understand the typology, signs and symbols of the New Jerusalem, God`s Tabernacle, we need to understand Christ`s function as High priest, King and prophet.

Marilyn.

 

[Vine Abider]

5 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi again VA,

The New Jerusalem details are all symbolic. Charles J. Rolls, a great Bible teacher from last century says -

The Tabernacle is for dwelling,

The Throne for ruling,

The Temple  for blessing.    (ref. His Glorious name. pg. 42 & 37)

Then he goes on to say concerning the Tabernacle -

In the sphere of typology, no figurative structure exists that expresses such a wide range of illumination and instruction as does the Tabernacle and its services. The highest and holiest resources of divine wisdom find expression in the multiplicity of parts and manifold ministries associated with it.

The distinguished model was a miniature in material form of Messiah`s many variegated ministries,.....

The entire structure had to be most carefully erected according to the divine pattern. Not a single loop or tache, of which there were two hundred on the innermost curtain alone, was left to human judgment or arrangement.

The Lord gave to Moses, in the plan revealed, a set of signs, symbols and shadows which comprised a fascinating forecast of the true substance, for the entire structure signified Christ and His ministry. The ritual portrayed the function of the priest, king, and prophet...

The Tabernacle in the wilderness gives us God`s purpose for the Lord in His function as (High) priest, king and prophet. 

Jesus is God`s Tabernacle - ` And the word became flesh and TABERNACLED among us...` (John 1: 14)

Thus, to understand the typology, signs and symbols of the New Jerusalem, God`s Tabernacle, we need to understand Christ`s function as High priest, King and prophet.

Marilyn.

 

Good! So what part does the multiplication of Christ - the many grains He died to produce - have in God's eternal purpose?

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Good! So what part does the multiplication of Christ - the many grains He died to produce - have in God's eternal purpose?

Hi VA,

Such interesting and insightful questions. You have me really thinking - deeply. 

So, the `multiplication of Christ, ` I see from God`s word are the believers in the `Body of Christ. `

`For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren. ` (Rom. 8: 29)

Then we see that God has enabled us to have the very divine nature of Christ. Utterly amazing.  

(God has given to us) ` exceedingly great and precious promises, and through these you may be partakers of the divine nature,....`  (2 Peter 1: 4)

So, by God`s Holy Spirit and with us receiving the truths of Christ we grow up into Him who is our head -Christ.

` speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head - Christ.  ` (Eph. 4: 15)

 

We need to appreciate the above to realize that we are being prepared for more than just an earthly inheritance. We are part of a spiritual organism, being given the divine nature of Christ and joined to Him - Head - Body. There is NO greater relationship than that. 

Our part in God`s eternal purposes is of a great responsibility. We will function in the two offices of king and priest. This is the highest responsibility in all of God`s great kingdom. The kings represent government and activity, and the priests represent worship and spirituality. 

I have my Bible college notes on this subject by Ps. Lovell, (deceased). If you would like to read some more of it I will write it here. 

 

Marilyn.

[Your closest friendnt]

25 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

Such interesting and insightful questions. You have me really thinking - deeply. 

So, the `multiplication of Christ, ` I see from God`s word are the believers in the `Body of Christ. `

`For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren. ` (Rom. 8: 29)

Then we see that God has enabled us to have the very divine nature of Christ. Utterly amazing.  

(God has given to us) ` exceedingly great and precious promises, and through these you may be partakers of the divine nature,....`  (2 Peter 1: 4)

So, by God`s Holy Spirit and with us receiving the truths of Christ we grow up into Him who is our head -Christ.

` speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head - Christ.  ` (Eph. 4: 15)

 

We need to appreciate the above to realize that we are being prepared for more than just an earthly inheritance. We are part of a spiritual organism, being given the divine nature of Christ and joined to Him - Head - Body. There is NO greater relationship than that. 

Our part in God`s eternal purposes is of a great responsibility. We will function in the two offices of king and priest. This is the highest responsibility in all of God`s great kingdom. The kings represent government and activity, and the priests represent worship and spirituality. 

I have my Bible college notes on this subject by Ps. Lovell, (deceased). If you would like to read some more of it I will write it here. 

 

Marilyn.

"The multiplication of Christ", is this Catholic? It does sound very Catholic...

[Vine Abider]

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

"The multiplication of Christ", is this Catholic? It does sound very Catholic...

If by "Catholic" you mean "universal," then yes!    Those were my words, based upon John 12:24, "I tell you the truth, a grain of wheat must fall to the ground and die to make many grains. But if it never dies, it remains only a single grain."  What Marilyn said was spot on I think, regarding God's eternal purpose.  That is, Christ came to produce the many - us!  He desires, and will have, many sons brought into glory!  (Heb 2:10)  Therefore we are a multiplication of Christ.