Where are Believers when the Body Dies - immediately and ultimately?

[Vine Abider]

42 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

1. Out of every tribe, tongue, people, nation etc. And that is more than 24. (Rev. 5; 9)

2. They have white robes - holy priests. (Rev. 4: 4)

3. They have crowns - rulers. (Rev. 4: 4)

4. They are around the throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

5. They are kingpriests. (Rev. 1: 6)

 

The Lord Jesus Christ is the King (High) priest. Thus, His body is also of that order, (Heb.  6: 20) kingpriests. (Rev. 1: 6) That is the highest ruling authority.

 

Note that the apostles are kings in the NJ and the 144,000 are the priests. Separate offices there in the lower heavens. (Rev. 21: 14,  17,    Rev. 7: 4,   14: 1 - 5)

What do you mean there are more than 24 (elders I assume)?  And the reference given of Rev 5:9 doesn't seem to apply.

Thanks!

[Vine Abider]

38 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Very good question as you see the error of people thinking they are `female,` a bride, (no marriages in heaven) has led to the wrong inheritance. 

The NJ is promised to the OT saints. (Heb. 11: 16) It is the rulership under the Lord in the lower heavens. It will be over the earth as the whole world walks in its light. Thus, it needs to be above the world for that to occur. (Rev. 21: 24) 

It will be the connecting (illustration of AS a bride - marriage, union and connection) of the spiritual and the physical realms. 

Scripture never says it comes to the earth. God promised Abraham that his descendants would be as the -

1. Stars of heaven - a prominent position in the lower heavens. (not the predominant though, for that is for the Body of Christ in the third heaven.)

2. Sand of the sea-shore - the predominant position on the earth, (over the nations).

God is restoring rulership in every realm starting with the highest, and that is us as we hold fast to the Head and wait eagerly for Him. (Col. 2: 19,  Heb. 9: 28)

Quite a bit to work through so take your time.

Marilyn. 

Here are four passages that come to mind related to the building/temple God will dwell in:

  I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.  And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.  (Rev 21:2-3)

 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.  (Rev 21:12-14)

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. (Eph 2:19-22)

By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. (1 Cor 3:10-15)

The last two passages in Ephesians and 1st Corinthians relate to new covenant, regenerated Christians.

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

What do you mean there are more than 24 (elders I assume)?  And the reference given of Rev 5:9 doesn't seem to apply.

Thanks!

24 is 2 x 12.  

12 for kings. 

24 for kingpriests. 

Thus, a representative number & of the order of Christ`s order - Kingpriest. (Heb. 6: 20). This is the order that is in the highest rulership on Christ`s own throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

Other rulerships under Christ in the lower heavens and on earth have the two offices separate. 

That is why Paul says to take care and press towards the high, on top calling in Christ Jesus. (Phil. 3: 12 - 14)

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Here are four passages that come to mind related to the building/temple God will dwell in:

  I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.  And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.  (Rev 21:2-3)

 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.  (Rev 21:12-14)

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. (Eph 2:19-22)

By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. (1 Cor 3:10-15)

The last two passages in Ephesians and 1st Corinthians relate to new covenant, regenerated Christians.

Rev. 21: 2 - 3 reveal that God by His Spirit will dwell with those in the NJ which was promised to the OT saints. (Heb. 11 16) God is WITH them.

Eph. 2: 19 - 22 describes the spiritual organism of the Body of Christ in which dwells the Spirit of God.  God is IN them.

1 Cor. 3: 10 - 15 also describes how the members of the Body of Christ individually are built upon Christ, (His divine nature, 2 Peter 4) and are IN Christ. (Col. 3: 3) 

 

[Vine Abider]

16 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Rev. 21: 2 - 3 reveal that God by His Spirit will dwell with those in the NJ which was promised to the OT saints. (Heb. 11 16) God is WITH them.

Eph. 2: 19 - 22 describes the spiritual organism of the Body of Christ in which dwells the Spirit of God.  God is IN them.

1 Cor. 3: 10 - 15 also describes how the members of the Body of Christ individually are built upon Christ, (His divine nature, 2 Peter 4) and are IN Christ. (Col. 3: 3) 

 

It's a foreign thought to me that the New Jerusalem won't be made up of all God's people, both old and new covenant ones.  To me, Ephesians cements the idea that believers will be part of the building, the dwelling place of God.

Quote

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. (Eph 2:19-22)

 

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

It's a foreign thought to me that the New Jerusalem won't be made up of all God's people, both old and new covenant ones.  To me, Ephesians cements the idea that believers will be part of the building, the dwelling place of God.

 

Hi VA,

OK, I hear you and quite understand. Now, the Holy Spirit as we know, has been guiding the Body of Christ into all truth over the centuries. (John 16: 13) We have received the truths of - salvation through Christ`s sacrifice, believer`s baptism, infilling of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and the 5 ministry gifts of Christ. (Note many have been ostracized or even martyred because of these truths).

And today, the Holy Spirit is bringing across the Body of Christ the final truth of the Eternal Purposes in Christ - for the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations. Their inheritance in God`s great kingdom. 

Hopefully and prayfully we can discuss this important subject. 

So, you are saying that we, the Body of Christ as the `Temple` of the Holy Spirit will be in the New Jerusalem. You see that Paul is telling the Ephesians  (2: 19 - 22) that they are the `holy temple` in the Lord, and this matches the New Jerusalem. (Please correct me if I have misunderstood you there.)

1. The OT saints were never told they were the temple of the Holy Spirit, just that they had to look for a city. (Heb. 11: 16) Doesn`t seem to match with us being the (symbolic) temple.

2. Who are the nations on the new earth outside the NJ? 

`And the NATIONS of those who are saved shall walk in its (NJ) light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honour into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)   

 

Marilyn.

 

[heartwashed3]

On 12/11/2022 at 2:10 PM, Vine Abider said:

Regenerated believers are told they will be with the Lord when they leave this mortal tent, so is this heaven or some other temporary place?

And ultimately we will be with Him in the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven to the earth, right?

Please provide specific verses.

Specific verses aside, I think that it is a common sense proposition to believe that the Lord is in heaven.

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, heartwashed3 said:

Specific verses aside, I think that it is a common sense proposition to believe that the Lord is in heaven.

I agree.  But in another sense He's in us too . . .

[heartwashed3]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I agree.  But in another sense He's in us too . . .

So, you think we remain in our bodies (as in soul sleep)?

That does not sound very promising...with the prospect of bugs eating your skin while you are in that state...

[Vine Abider]

14 hours ago, heartwashed3 said:

So, you think we remain in our bodies (as in soul sleep)?

That does not sound very promising...with the prospect of bugs eating your skin while you are in that state...

Oh yes, that sounds like fun . . . NOT & YIKES!  No, I don't think I was one who thought this - your reply may have needed to be directed to someone else - I don't think this.