Why did God have to sacrifice Jesus at the hands of the Roman in order to allow believers to enter heaven ? Do you have to kill your son in order to allow good people to enter your house ?

[Your closest friendnt]

@DeighAnn

I am trying to point to "there in no more sea" by defining what the Sea...

The authority of the Devil to take Adam and Eve and their descendants by DEFAULT at the time of their death and keep them in Hades the place where the dead were kept.  

In Genesis 3 we are told that it will come to the end...the seed of the woman will do that at the time the Devil will put him to death...

Jesus after his death and resurrection he said I have the Keys of Death and Hades

( please note that KJV has departed from the original word and is using the word Hell instant of Hades..)( besides the point)

This one of the reasons Jesus said that all authority has been given to me even in everything in the things in the earth...in the underworld..

The Devil does not have the authority to take the people by DEFAULT when they die. 

This authority was taken from him. The is no more sea in the New Covenant...the Default right of the Devil to take the people at the time of their death...

When did that happen..

When the Priests put Jesus to death...

When God opened Heaven to receive the people in the name of Jesus Christ. 

When Jesus inherited Heaven not only for himself but for anyone who believes in him...

This is it the waters of the Jordan river were pulled up and stay there the moment the Priest out Jesus to death. 

The moment they stepped in the waters of the Jordan river carrying the Ark..

The Jordan river is symbolic to the river of death and it took all the dead people to the Dead Sea...who is bellow in the earth... the river flows down below the surface of the sea...

The people were gathered in the Dead Sea by DEFAULT...

This ordinances is finished...Jesus has to decide the fate of everyone...everyone had to appear and before Jesus who will decide to let them go to Heaven or to be taken to what is called their final destination without returned because now they have been Judged...

The people in the sea of the dead were there because there was only one Inheritance for mankind God could not and never contested with the Death and Hades about anyone who died...even for his own people Abraham Issac and Jacob and all the children of Jacob and his household..Jacob was renamed Israel because he received the blessing that beginning with him all his children were included in the blessing to Abraham...(that's why Jesus also is referred as Israel because in him all the people of the earth are included in the family of God by faith in him...

Abraham was told that at the time of his death he will go to his ancestors and the same was told to Issac and to Jacob and to David that at the time of their death they will not be taken to Heaven...

There is another reason that God told them that and other things as to worship only him because the people of that time they had their ancestors as their guardians and their protectors...and worship the Angel's or call on them for help...

The Lord God Almighty told Abraham to not hope in those things and call upon their ancestors to be their Angels when he said to him "I am your Lord God, I am God Almighty, (that's it) " I am your shield and your buckle, I am your great reward ".

"No weapon that is form against you will prosper, I have the black Smith who will fashion the weapon for your defense " and "every tongue who accuses you in judgment I will condemn ". 

[HAZARD]

20 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

God can throw satan or anybody from heaven and He can receive whoever into heaven such as Enoch and Eliah, what good is it to let Jesus be killed by the Roman ?

Enoch and Eliah, did not die. They will be killed when they return as the two witnesses. 

Hebrews 9:27,    

27, And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 

[Your closest friendnt]

Just now, HAZARD said:

Enoch and Eliah, did not die. They will be killed when they return as the two witnesses. 

Hebrews 9:27,    

27, And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 

This questionable it is a  pure speculation....as it is a pure speculation that Moses died...

God gave Life to them and he took them to Heaven...

Certainly the people did not understand that and they were looking for their bodies but not Elisha the servant of Elijah who witnessed and understood everything that took place...

And not the three disciples of Jesus after they witness Elijah and Moses together with Jesus discushing the things that were know in Heaven as to what will happen to Jesus that he has to suffer and die in the hands of the Priesthood and the leaders....they informed the disciples that the leaders will not believe in Jesus and not to listen and follow them, to listen to Jesus, Moses pointed to Jesus and not to himself, he said "listen to him" and did not point to himself...listen to him in what he tells you. He made Jesus greater than himself. 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What does Moses approaching God have to do with 'what the Law could not do'? 

 The only thing the written law could not do, from what I understand, was render forgiveness and wash one clean.  It could POINT to sin, it could point to the ways sin could be covered, but IT could not render that forgiveness itself.  

Just a little lost here as to what you are saying. 

"God had given to Moses Life..."

The Lord God said to them to people who were under the Law or in the righteousnessoftheLaw "

sanctified yourselves and he told them what to do, then he said "no one approach the mountain or come near to it 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 12/13/2022 at 4:44 PM, R. Hartono said:

Isn't heaven belong to God Himself ? 

The perfection of God prohibited him from allowing sinful people into Heaven. Therefore Jesus offered to be the perfect sacrifice to buy us entrance into Heaven. He probably could have died in another way,  but he chose to die the most horrible and painful way to die that's ever been invented. Jesus did this out of love,  and how we can see that and not have total love for him in return baffles the mind. 

[RoysterMeister]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Any idea if the 'sea' is symbolic of the 'peoples of the world', different and/or separated from those made alive by the 'living water'?  For some reason 'the sea' has been on my mind lately and I don't know why except 'the beast rising up from the sea' and 'no more sea'...and when I see 'sea' it seems, IDK.  

The sea used to be a symbol of untamed evil -- that's why the evil critters in Revelations come up out of the sea.    So "no more sea" is a way of saying that the source of evil has been shut down!

[DeighAnn]

11 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

"God had given to Moses Life..."

The Lord God said to them to people who were under the Law or in the righteousnessoftheLaw "

sanctified yourselves and he told them what to do, then he said "no one approach the mountain or come near to it 

Thank you but we are on two different hwys right now, I think.  Maybe at another time in another way or another approach.  Again, thank you for trying.  

[Your closest friendnt]

12 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Thank you but we are on two different hwys right now, I think.  Maybe at another time in another way or another approach.  Again, thank you for trying.  

Perhaps we need to use a different approach...because you are talking about sins.  

The Lord God said to Moses: Abraham and Issac and Jacob that are alive to him, this is how Jesus e explained what God said to Moses ..when he said to him at the burning Bush that "I am the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob...". 

God excluded the other children of Abraham and the other son of Isaac. 

Because Isaac was chosen to have the blessing of Abraham and Jacob was chosen to have the blessing of Abraham...and all the children of Jacob who was named Israel were included in the blessings of Abraham. 

Those people they did not have the Law they did not have a Temple of a Priesthood they were not asked to sacrifice any animal for the forgiveness of sins...

It is not that they were perfect and did not sin, it was because they were only in the Covenant of Circumcision and it is also that their sins were not held against them.. 

The children of Jacob who were all chosen by God to be in the blessings of Abraham they did terrible things read their history and what Jacob said about them when he bless them at the time of their death...

All of them they were gathered to Abraham at the time of their death and were all alive to God...

And their children were gathered to them who were gathered to Abraham...Gathered to Abraham through them. 

Their sins were not counted against them...

That's how they were considered righteous and were Live to God.  

They could not be together with the Lord God Almighty but were his children and were Alive to him by DEFAULT because they were  Abraham's children by the oath the Lord had made to Abraham if they will abide by the Covenant of Circumcision.  

They were alive to God and he was their God while they lived and when they died they continued to be their God.  

They could not be together, they were separated from God but they continued to be his children and him to be their God.  

Which meant that Death and Hades were off limits from the place where they were after they died...a place separated and set apart from the rest of the dead of the world. 

 

[DeighAnn]

11 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Perhaps we need to use a different approach...because you are talking about sins.  

The Lord God said to Moses: Abraham and Issac and Jacob that are alive to him, this is how Jesus e explained what God said to Moses ..when he said to him at the burning Bush that "I am the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob...". 

God excluded the other children of Abraham and the other son of Isaac. 

Because Isaac was chosen to have the blessing of Abraham and Jacob was chosen to have the blessing of Abraham...and all the children of Jacob who was named Israel were included in the blessings of Abraham. 

Those people they did not have the Law they did not have a Temple of a Priesthood they were not asked to sacrifice any animal for the forgiveness of sins...

It is not that they were perfect and did not sin, it was because they were only in the Covenant of Circumcision and it is also that their sins were not held against them.. 

The children of Jacob who were all chosen by God to be in the blessings of Abraham they did terrible things read their history and what Jacob said about them when he bless them at the time of their death...

All of them they were gathered to Abraham at the time of their death and were all alive to God...

And their children were gathered to them who were gathered to Abraham...Gathered to Abraham through them. 

Their sins were not counted against them...

That's how they were considered righteous and were Live to God.  

They could not be together with the Lord God Almighty but were his children and were Alive to him by DEFAULT because they were  Abraham's children by the oath the Lord had made to Abraham if they will abide by the Covenant of Circumcision.  

They were alive to God and he was their God while they lived and when they died they continued to be their God.  

They could not be together, they were separated from God but they continued to be his children and him to be their God.  

Which meant that Death and Hades were off limits from the place where they were after they died...a place separated and set apart from the rest of the dead of the world. 

 

We have had this conversation before, so you know, on this, we do not agree.  Just like I believe faith in Jesus Christ brings us to God today, being under grace, and that we never die but instead are raised up/resurrected/ascend in glory to our immortality being of the first kind of resurrection which is resurrecting at death of the flesh and not resurrecting out from the grave and out from the dead on a 'last day' of the age (having never died and never descended and never amongst the dead whether in body or spirit to become a prisoner and captive of Death and Hades, in hell along with all the 'dead who bury their dead', those who never received the gift of salvation, because they never came to faith and so were never saved from destruction because they were of the world and chose death over life...but instead, I believe Abraham Isaac and Jacob ALL came to FAITH even under the law, and so they DID NOT have to be PERFECT under the law any more than we have to, so they sowed their natural bodies and were raised in their spiritual bodies and have continued on LIVING in heaven just like Christ and all those He led when He ascended being raised in glory to return with Christ as will all, who, not like their fathers who ate bread in the wilderness and DIED...but all those who were made new creatures and joint heirs with Christ and FOLLOWED Him to be where He is (at the right hand of God) in the place having been prepared for those of us who never die and who KNOW THE WAY.  I don't believe we were supposed to be a part of this world while in the flesh and so I don't think God would make us remain when we are set free of this mortal body since we already dwell with him in heaven and that is where our citizenship is.  I don't think there is a pause in our eternal life for a 'time' to be spent with death.  Just doesn't make any sense to me.  
But I wasn't speaking of sin, I was asking whether 'the sea' was symbolic of a people much like 'horn' is symbolic for power...that was all. 

[JohnR7]

10 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

These were he last words..."it is finished".

This is it, he did what he had to do...

At that very moment the whole world was cleansed...

His work was a finished work. There is nothing anyone can add to what He did for us. Even though I had not even been born. 2000 years of people had not yet been born and He had not yet begun to do a finished work in their life. 

 

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Any idea if the 'sea' is symbolic of the 'peoples of the world'

This is most likely a reference to the dead sea or something like that. Not all the water in the world. It could be a referance that people are alive and no longer dead in their sin.