The Wedding Feast

[George]

@Selah7. This doesn't imply deception ... but rather the war against the saints.

Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.
Daniel 11:32‭-‬35 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/dan.11.32-35.NKJV

I believe this passage is better related to the Daniel passage you quoted.

[Selah7]

38 minutes ago, George said:

@Selah7. This doesn't imply deception ... but rather the war against the saints.

Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.
Daniel 11:32‭-‬35 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/dan.11.32-35.NKJV

I believe this passage is better related to the Daniel passage you quoted.

Daniel 11:32 "And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries; but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits."

Hey again, George.  Yes, those Elect/Saints who are sealed with the Truth of God’s Word (that precious “Oil” of the Holy Spirit Who is our Teacher and Who instructs us through the Word of God, the Bible) will never be deceived.  Many Christians who don’t know His instructions will be deceived and go along with all sorts of wickedness and sadly, through ignorance of His Word, will worship Satan (the AC)—the great apostasy.  Woe!

Notice in the verse below that it says “My people.”

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

- Hosea 4:6 (KJV)

Edited December 28, 2022 by Selah7

[Starise]

On 12/27/2022 at 5:41 AM, AdHoc said:

Thanks for sharing your view. It's like soldiers brainstorming the next move. Every thought is precious - either to tell us what way to go and what way not to go. Here are mine.

I approach the parables with the theme and whether it addresses FAITH or WORKS. If it is FAITH then the end is going to be LIFE. If the thread is WORKS it pertains to the behavior AFTER BEING SAVED and a REWARD.

The ten Virgins are identical in seven points. They are ALL Virgins. They ALL have Lamps burning. The ALL await the Groom. They ALL fall asleep due to the Grooms delay. They ALL awake at the same time. The Groom comes for ALL ten. They ALL trimmed their Lamps. In this we see no difference. The difference comes in the appreciation of EXTRA OIL. Proverbs 20:27 gives the meaning of the Lamps - the spirit of man. ALL where lit and burning. This harmonizes with John 3:3-6 in that the parable is about the Kingdom of Heaven and one is only qualified to ENTER  with their spirits born again. The title "Virgin" is only given to Christians in the New Testament (2nd Cor.11:2). Only Christians will be resurrected together "when He comes" (1st Cor.15:23). Israel and the Nations do not look for the Groom. They reject Him, even hate Him.

The evidence presented to us is overwhelming in one direction - ALL Ten are Christians. The problem came not with any action of sin. The problem was that five of the Virgins did not know that one needed extra oil - not in the Lamp, but in the VESSEL. And these five Virgins did not know that this oil had to be PAID FOR. For this they are called "FOOLISH".

In order for you and I not to be labeled "FOOLISH" and in order to avoid what happened to them, we must find the meaning of PAYING and of EXTRA OIL. And since private interpretation is not allowed (2nd Pet.1:20), we have to explain the PRICE and the OIL from scripture alone. Since the parable is about the KINGDOM, we can study all the mentions of the Kingdom and we find out that there is a price to be paid gaining the Kingdom - your soul-life (Matt.10:39, 16:25-26, Mk.8:35-36, Lk.24, 17:33, Jn.12:25).

A study of the soul of man shows that it is made of three parts - mind, emotions and will. And scripture addresses these part at length. Losing the soul entail refusing illegal thoughts (mind), setting legitimate emotions aside like anger, and making decisions against the self like forgiving in the face of grievous hurt. In many scriptures, this denying the self is couple with the command to put the flesh on a cross. The price for extra oil is truly high.

But there was another problem with the foolish Virgins. Their tendency not to PAY and their tendency to protect the self and the soul led them to NEGLECT the Groom. They were so self-centered that they had no time for the most important person in their lives - the Heavenly Groom Who lost His soul-life FOR THEM. Self-centeredness is the cancer of Christianity. The preserving of the self will lead to a stunted spirituality. And who of us likes a self-centered person. They had such a value for themselves that they have no time for fellowship with their Fiancé. They are so busy preening that they had no time for their Groom. This makes them DOUBLY FOOLISH.

Being a Christian does not make you wise. The fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom, and His Word does the rest (Prov.4:5). True wisdom is a relationship with Jesus (1st Cor.1:23-24, 30). And a relationship with Jesus will lead you out of your foolish self and into the KINGDOM. This parable is all about Christians. In a GREAT House, says scripture, you have Vessels unto honor and Vessels unto dishonor. ALL are Vessels and ALL belong to the same House. But their usage and service is starkly different. This Parable was about WORKS AND REWARD, not salvation by faith.

Before I respond to this, let me make clear that I DO BELIEVE some of the elect (saved) will be fooled. I never doubted that. I don't believe this applies to the parable of the wedding garment and the " I don't know you" ideas in the parable of the 10 virgins lead me in another direction in spite of the explanations of what that was supposed to mean. In any case, the door was SHUT and I think this is significant. John McArthur's notes on the text reflect my views. Here is what He says about it-

The parable of the wedding feast-

All without exception were invited to the banquet, so this man is not be regarded as a common party crasher. In fact, all the guests were rounded up hastily from " the highways" and therefore none could be expected to come with proper attire. That means the wedding garments were provided by the king Himself. So this man's lack of a proper wedding garment indictes he had purposely rejected the king's own gracious provision. His affront to the king was actaullly a greater unsult than those who refused to come at all, because he committed his impertinence in the very presence of the king. The imagery seems to represent those who identify with the kingdom externally, profess to be Christians, belong to the church in a visible sense- yet spurn the garment of righteousness Christ offers(cf Isaiah 61:10)by seeking to establish a righteousness of their own (cf Rom 10:3:Phil 3:8-9). Ashamed to admit their own spiritual poverty, they refuse the better garment the King graciously offers-and thus they are guilty of a horrible sin against His goodness.

22:13- Outer darkness- This would describe the darkness farthest from the light, weeping and gnashing of teeth  This speaks of inconsolible grief and unremitting torment. Jesus commonly used the phrases in this verse to describe hell( cf. 13:24, 50; 24;51)

On the parable of the 10 virgins

The parable of the 10 virgins is given to underscore the importance of being ready for Christ's return in any event- even if He delays longer than expected. For when He does return, there will be no second chances for the unprepared.(vv 11,12)

[Starise]

1 hour ago, George said:

Honestly, it's simply trying to figure out the Virgins and what they missed out on?  Is it a rapture?  Is it rewards?  If rewards ... which one?

This is why I have been trying to hone my focus on this.

Things I know- The door was shut to 5 foolish virgins. I think this is VERY significant.

Those who are saved cannot be fooled to the point they loose their salvation as your scripture references indicate. "If" it were possible to fool the elect. It isn't truly possible to fool the elect to the point of turning their backs. I think they can be fooled on some of the lesser doctrines if they aren't in study of the word.

I can't quite jump to the conclusion that the virgins having the door shut is loss of salvation, UNLESS they are religious tares. A good tare looks just like wheat in almost every way, so they could have been going through the motions all this time but not really prepared.

Assuming the oil is the Spirit negates anyone with this view from looking at alternative views. If they are believers and "If" the oil is the Spirit, then they simply missed out, but where is the verse that expressly says they missed out on millenial leadership roles? Or what indication do we have that the oil is the Spirit and the unwise ran out of it? Do we "run out" of the Spirit?

Shutting a door is significant, remember the ark when the door was SHUT. Those outside the ark drowned.

For me, this all goes to the idea that an unprepared (salvationally) individual is just a well meaning tare. Oil took some effort to obtain and due to their spiritual vision the wise virgins knew they needed to have plenty of oil on hand. To the others, apparently it wasn't enough of a priority.

If looking at rewards, we are rewarded based on what we do, The unfaithful have no reward because they didn't do anything. There is no inbetween here. 5 wise and 5 unwise. No 1/8th of a reward for good looks or personality.

[George]

14 minutes ago, Starise said:

If they are believers and "If" the oil is the Spirit, then they simply missed out, but where is the verse that expressly says they missed out on millenial leadership roles?

The parable of authority ... over 10 cities, over 5 cities, then he that had what appears to be one ... lost the one that he had and it was given to those that had much.

[George]

16 minutes ago, Starise said:

Or what indication do we have that the oil is the Spirit and the unwise ran out of it? Do we "run out" of the Spirit?

Do you remember how Samson was ... he was filled with the Spirit ... and yet, when the Spirit left him ... he didn't know he was powerless.

And she said, “The Philistines are upon you, Samson!” So he awoke from his sleep, and said, “I will go out as before, at other times, and shake myself free!” But he did not know that the Lord had departed from him.
Judges 16:20 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/jdg.16.20.NKJV

Praying for daily bread ... for me, it's praying for a fresh anointing all the time!

Oil in the menorah was just for one day .... each day you need to refill on Oil!

[Starise]

6 hours ago, George said:

The parable of authority ... over 10 cities, over 5 cities, then he that had what appears to be one ... lost the one that he had and it was given to those that had much.

I probably need some more study on the millenium. If the millenium is 1000 years, then it's really only a drop in the bucket of eternity and on the surface, does not look like the sole benefit we believers will have for eternity, even though it is significant.

And I know this is sort of a crazy thing for me to think, but there will be millions of believers and probably only a handful of cities to be governed. The math just isn't working out for me here.Even if all the rest are janitors due to not being ready. There must be a more balanced way to interpret some of this IMHO.

5 hours ago, George said:

Do you remember how Samson was ... he was filled with the Spirit ... and yet, when the Spirit left him ... he didn't know he was powerless.

And she said, “The Philistines are upon you, Samson!” So he awoke from his sleep, and said, “I will go out as before, at other times, and shake myself free!” But he did not know that the Lord had departed from him.
Judges 16:20 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/jdg.16.20.NKJV

Praying for daily bread ... for me, it's praying for a fresh anointing all the time!

Oil in the menorah was just for one day .... each day you need to refill on Oil!

Good point on Sampson. It seems to me that those without the Spirit pay here, like Samson did.

If those foolish virgins also "pay here" I have to ask myself what that looks like.

You might say Sampson will also pay "there". Not sure. Remember Jonah. He "Payed here" too. David "payed here"

Will God forever chase us with our failures into eternity? I hope not.

[George]

Another problem that I see, is the extremes when it comes to the power of the Spirit, and the anointing of the Spirit.  Within Charisamania (where anything supernatural must be the power of the Holy Spirit and nothing is tested to see if it truly is of God! ) or within cessationist circles ... there are extremes and it seems both have missed the mark!

Personally, I believe "The Person and the Work of the Holy Spirit" by R.A. Torrey is a fundamental read for every believer.  Another book is "The Power of Pentecost" by John R. Rice ... I agree with all of his book except his chapter on tongues, but that's a different story. 

However, how many people talk about the need to work in the power of the Spirit?  And the necessary lifestyle to walk in the power of the Spirit?  Remember the Holy Spirit is given to them that obey Him!  

But we're stopping so far from the mark ... just get people saved ... and not finishing where they should be ending up ... prepared to be the bride of Christ!

[George]

28 minutes ago, Starise said:

And I know this is sort of a crazy thing for me to think, but there will be millions of believers and probably only a handful of cities to be governed. The math just isn't working out for me here.Even if all the rest are janitors due to not being ready. There must be a more balanced wat to interpret some of this IMHO.

In the Millennial reign, it will get to billions upon billions of people when it's all said and done!  I figured out the math ... there will be at least 500,000,000 that survive it all and upwards to 2 billion that are "left of the nations."  The lifetimes will be restored as in Genesis ... Isaiah talks about a child that dies is 100 years old!  When there is no war, no pestilence as we understand it, no disease as we know, and no abortions ... by the time the 1,000 years is completed people will be great to the 15th power or something grandparents!

Isa 60:22  The least one shall become a clan, and the smallest one a mighty nation; I am the LORD; in its time I will hasten it. 

The number of people living will be as the 'stars in heaven' comparison as promised Abraham.

Remember that the Millennial Kingdom is only 1000 years ... and when it's all completed ...

[George]

20 minutes ago, Starise said:

Will God forever chase us with our failures into eternity? I hope not.

No, after the 1000 years are completed you have the final removal of tears!

It seems to be in stages ... you have the removal of tears from Israel [in their redemption read Jeremiah 31, Isaiah 65 ... you have the removal of tears for those who are at the marriage supper of the lamb Isaiah 25:9-13 ... you have the removal of tears from the tribulation saints in Rev 7 ... you have the removal of tears as we go into the New Jerusalem in Rev 21:4 when you have those of the nations pass through the Great White Throne judgment.

As each group goes into their redemption ... the promise to remove tears happens again and again.

But as we enter into the New Jerusalem ... I'm not even sure we will even remember this life or how much of it ... if you will not sorrow any longer ... do we simply forget?!?