The Efficacy of Water Baptism

[Cntrysner]

Just want to add some things...

Heb 9:8  The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 
Heb 9:9  Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 
Heb 9:10  Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 

Reformation to me is very simple, it means that now all things concerning salvation are in Christ and man can do nothing (John 6:63). Yes, salvation is a free gift and in order to receive eternal salvation you must stop trying to work for it. Works to consider ones self to be worthy to God, what ever they may be, ceremonial or otherwise, are dead in Christ, you can do nothing but surrender your whole body, soul and spirit to God!

Rom 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 

Rom 12:2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

[warrior12]

On 4/28/2024 at 8:39 PM, Retrobyter said:

"See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"

37 And Philip said,

"If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest."

And he answered and said,

"I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

In simple terms, I would say, water baptism is essentially a testimony and a witness, you the believer shouts to the world that you belong to the body of belivers whose testimony is "Jesus Christ is Lord ."

Every believer who has tasted the heavenly manner would yearn to testify or tell others of the good news. Water baptism is a symbol or solidifies his testimony that he is a born again believer , hence the reason the saints rejoice when it takes place.

 Hebrews 6

⁴ For it is impossible [to restore and bring again to repentance] those who have been once for all enlightened, who have consciously tasted the heavenly gift and have become sharers of the Holy Spirit,

⁵ And have felt how good the Word of God is and the mighty powers of the age and world to come,

[Cntrysner]

On 5/12/2024 at 6:43 AM, warrior12 said:

In simple terms, I would say, water baptism is essentially a testimony and a witness, you the believer shouts to the world that you belong to the body of belivers whose testimony is "Jesus Christ is Lord ."

Every believer who has tasted the heavenly manner would yearn to testify or tell others of the good news. Water baptism is a symbol or solidifies his testimony that he is a born again believer , hence the reason the saints rejoice when it takes place.

Hello @warrior12,

The Ethiopian gave his testimony that he believed Jesus was the Son of God. Demons believe this also and we see Christ rebuking those that believed in Him so much that they were able to perform miracles and cast out demons in His name.

To believe Jesus is the Messiah (Son of God) is required but it is clear that one must have a better testimony and we see the eunuch being water baptized for remission of sins as John the Baptist proclaimed when he prepared the Jews for Christ’s arrival and His gospel.

This act was not symbolic of remission of sins that happed in the past, it happened at that very moment.       
 

Mat 8:29  And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 
Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 
Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 

 

[warrior12]

5 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

To believe Jesus is the Messiah (Son of God) is required but it is clear that one must have a better testimony and we see the eunuch being water baptized for remission of sins as John the Baptist proclaimed when he prepared the Jews for Christ’s arrival and His gospel.

This act was not symbolic of remission of sins that happed in the past, it happened at that very moment.       

So why was Jesus Baptized ?.

[farouk]

On 5/12/2024 at 7:43 AM, warrior12 said:

In simple terms, I would say, water baptism is essentially a testimony and a witness, you the believer shouts to the world that you belong to the body of belivers whose testimony is "Jesus Christ is Lord ."

 

Hi @warrior12 Baptism is indeed a symbol. Acts 2.41 shows not that people were baptized in order supposedly to become Christians, but because they were Christians already, having gladly received the message preached.

[Cntrysner]

On 5/13/2024 at 8:11 PM, warrior12 said:

So why was Jesus Baptized ?.

It certainly wasn’t an example for gentiles who were without the law. 

Rom 2:14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:  

Under God’s law water immersion for purification and remission was required to be a Jewish priest in the coming kingdom with Christ Jesus as their high priest thus Christ had to fulfill that law. Christ anointed by God with the Spirit at His baptism was now qualified to sacrifice Himself for eternal remission of sins. 

Exo 19:6  And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 

Christ’s sacrificial blood for remission fulfilled the law’s of  righteousness such as water baptism for remission so that believers can be free from the law.

Rom 10:4  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 
Rom 10:5  For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

[Cntrysner]

12 hours ago, farouk said:

Hi @warrior12 Baptism is indeed a symbol. Acts 2.41 shows not that people were baptized in order supposedly to become Christians, but because they were Christians already, having gladly received the message preached.

The Jews under God’s law at Pentecost would have definitely disagree with your assessment.

Peter commanded them....

 Act_2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 

Edited May 15, 2024 by Cntrysner

[farouk]

1 hour ago, Cntrysner said:

The Jews under God’s law at Pentecost would have definitely disagree with your assessment.

Peter commanded them....

 Act_2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 

For = on account of.

Ritualism obscures; the symbol points to the Person and work of Christ, entered into by faith.

[Cntrysner]

4 hours ago, farouk said:

For = on account of.

Ritualism obscures; the symbol points to the Person and work of Christ, entered into by faith.

Where did you get that interpretation?

Into is a correct interpretation.

eis G1519 Prep INTO

God's law does not obscure but man's interpretation of His word most assuredly  can.

Water baptism was not a symbol to the Jew it was God's law and obeying God's laws was required. It is clear they were baptized into or for the remission of sins not on the account of.

Edited May 15, 2024 by Cntrysner

[Hawkins]

This is closely tied to what the Final Judgment lawfully/legally is, and what the Covenant lawfully/legally is.

The Judgment of Law is applicable to both angels and humans alike. However for the reason that the much more intelligent fallen angels (as led by Satan) can have a vital effect on humans that less intelligent humans are (without their owe awareness) kept captive. No one (human) is righteous, not even one in front of the Judgment of Law. To humans, Jesus is the only way.

That being said. The nature of the Judgment of Law is that, it's an objective judgment on one's past and one's behavior. It's an assessment of one's obedience. All humans without exception would fail such an assessments. Obedience is one of the two determining factors whether an entity with freewill can live with a completely sin-incompatible God in eternity. For that matter, Law is more like a promise from God that if one can pass the Judgment of Law, God would bear with him in eternity no matter what (like a Shepherd to His sheep).

Law, which as we speak is still perceivable by the angels however is no longer demonstratable to humans living in the corrupt world - our planet Earth. God has to demonstrate the nature of Law through the Jewish covenants (more on the Mosaic Covenant). Mosaic Covenant has a strict definition that only a circumcised Jew is lawfully/legally a Jew. You are not lawfully a Jew without the circumcision.

Covenant, which is only applicable to humans is granted through the blood of Jesus Christ. Any covenant (including the Covenant of Rainbow through Noah) cannot be lawfully signed off if without God's self-sacrifice through Jesus Christ at a certain point of humanity. Unlike Law, Covenant however is not an objective judgment. It's rather a subjective judgment by a God who is capable and just. Since it is a subjective judgment instead of an objective judgment, it's not limited to judging one's past and one's behavior. God is capable of judging one's heart/mind, God is capable of even judgment one's future (we don't know to which extent this would apply though).

That's why unlike circumcision as demanded by a Jewish covenant in the sense of Law, baptism is subject to the subjective judgment of Jesus Christ. In terms of the New Covenant, baptism defines a Christian (the same token as how circumcision defines a Jew). However when Jesus sees fit, you can exempt from this if you have a good reason (as Jesus sees, not you) not to be baptized. An example is the thief besides Jesus on the cross. The thief won't have a chance to be baptized, he however is endorsed by Jesus as a lawfully and legally valid Christians. The judgment is subjectively belongs to God the Son in this case.

You need to be baptized to be lawfully reckoned as a Christian, unless Jesus sees that you have a good reason not to be so. Or to simply put, when Jesus says that you are dead then you are dead, when He says that you are alive then you are alive. That's what a subjective Judgment could mean. By Law, when you said "Oh Lord" in your mouth, you may be saved as Law cannot judge heart to tell whether it is a lie. However Jesus Christ can tell who you are even when you fulfilled the Law by saying "Oh Lord" with your mouth. That lies the difference!

Edited May 19, 2024 by Hawkins