The Three Main Views of Hell

[Mije]

On 1/12/2023 at 3:24 PM, Starise said:

talked with a person who wants to go to hell.

There is a book in my local library entitled, ‘Famous People Who Are Going to Hell’.

It’s a who’s who of atheists…

[Marathoner]

It would be good to share how I came to be persuaded regarding the second death.

First, notions of an "afterlife" come to us from ancient superstitious belief pertaining to life after death. The afterlife of pagan systems are an elaborate affair and differ widely, though most are unified with regard to one persistent belief:

The immortality of the human spirit/soul.

I searched the scriptures and found the notion of an immortal human soul alien to their testimony. There is only one exception, and we should know this well:

The Son of God is well-pleased to give us eternal life. This is His reward to us.

We recall that Adam and his wife were cast out of the garden before they could eat from the Tree of Life, and thus live eternally. This underwrites the scriptural doctrine that the Lord God alone grants eternal life to man. 

Furthermore, the Lord declared that the soul who sins shall die, a reaffirmation that man does not already possess eternal life. This was what convinced me regarding the second death, for it is given that man shall die and then face judgment...

For the dead shall be resurrected to be judged by the Son of God upon His throne. Those whose names are not written in the book of life shall be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death. The dead see nothing and know nothing as the scripture informs us.

The second death is final (eternal). 

We read that the former things shall pass away and will be remembered no more, for the Lord makes all things new. In my opinion this teaching precludes the lake of fire burning eternally, perpetually tormenting those who were cast into it. The former things will be gone forever, which is how they will be remembered no more.

The scriptural context of eternal life is ever so clear, that this is the gift of God. The Father has given this to His beloved Son, that He grants eternal life to whomever He pleases; we whose lives are hidden in Him have already received this promise from the Lord, but there is one thing which I admit escapes my understanding:

The names of some of the dead might be written in the book of life. I'm aware of the teaching that many adhere to, that all of the dead will be cast into the fire; this is not how relevant scripture from the book of Revelation reads. We read that only those whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. This implies that there will be some who shall be spared.

[Waggles]

2 hours ago, Marathoner said:

The second death is final (eternal). 

1: the lake of fire is spiritual not natural. The dead shall feel and experience the sensation of being on fire but not burn from natural flames.

2: the devil and his angels are also cast into the lake of fire and scripture does not teach that they are annihilated and let off their just recompense.

Matt 25:41  Then shall he say also to them on the left, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
25:46  And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life. 

in verse 46 "eternal" used twice is the same Greek word - G166 αἰώνιος aiōnios - it is being used in the same sense of meaning for both everlasting outcomes.

3: The soul [a living being of flesh and spirit] shall die; that is we cannot go on into the eternities because of our rebellion against righteousness. The wicked whose names are not written in the books of Life are cast away into the lake of fire where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 

Matt 13:40  Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 
41  The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 
42  and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The dead will not be weeping and gnashing - those in the lake of fire must have consciousness in order for this punishment to take effect.

The lake of fire and the second death is spiritual not natural - the first death is natural, dust to dust, but the second death is to do with a resurrected body brought up from wherever by God for this great day of Judgement.

[Waggles]

3 hours ago, Mije said:

There is a book in my local library entitled, ‘Famous People Who Are Going to Hell’.

It’s a who’s who of atheists…

A rather simplistic view of judgement - many many Christians will also not make it.

[Waggles]

everlasting: Gr. aionios, +Matt_18:8, Some go to great length to argue that the punishment threatened here by our Lord Jesus Christ is not truly everlasting or never-ending. Those who argue this way do so in an effort to bolster their mistaken notion of justice and their mistaken view of the character of God (+**Gen_18:25 note).

Some quibble over the meaning of “eternal,” arguing from the fact that the word in Scripture is sometimes used in a finite sense (+Psa_24:9 note), and sometimes used in an infinite sense (Joh_6:54 note). From this fact they justify asserting a limited sense to the duration of everlasting punishment.

The answer to this objection is simple. Jesus spoke of two ages, this age, and the age to come. In the King James Version these terms are translated “this world” and “the world to come” in Mat_12:32.

When the word “eternal” is applied to things restricted to this age it is used in a finite or limited sense. When “eternal” has reference to things in “the age to come,” it is used in an infinite sense.

Clearly God is eternal and will continue to exist in the age to come. Just as eternal life and eternal punishment pertain to and exist in the age to come, so “eternal” in reference to them is used in the infinite, never-ending sense. +*Mat_18:8, Psa_52:5; Psa_92:7, **Isa_33:14; Isa_38:18, +*Dan_12:2, *Mar_3:29, 2Th_1:9, Heb_6:2, *Rev_14:11.

The Ultimate Cross-Reference Treasury by Jerome H. Smith © 2004

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, Waggles said:

A rather simplistic view of judgement - many many Christians will also not make it.

OK, I'll bite: "Many, many Christians will also not make it" . . . where?

Edited January 14, 2023 by Vine Abider

[Roymond]

7 hours ago, Waggles said:

A highly speculative thought.

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth" - time as we experience it in our world and age will not exist in the new age to come - for in here all things are eternal.

Matt 8:11  I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 
12  while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 

this will require consciousness in order to be of effect - annihilation will not produce weeping - eternal regret and sorrow. 

Matt 13:40  Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 
41  The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 
42  and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 
43  Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matt 22:10  And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 
11  “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 
12  And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 
13  Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 
14  For many are called, but few are chosen.”

There is nothing in scripture that teaches fanciful ideas of purgatory - punishment for a set time with parole on offer - judgement is eternal.

Eternal for those who are worthy to receive mercy and eternal life and eternal for those who are judged evil and will receive eternal condemnation.

To produce a theology of purgatory and/or annihilation is to also challenge the doctrine of eternal life and reward. The same Greek wording is used for both.

Mark 10:29  Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 
30  who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.

eternal - G166 αἰώνιος aiōnios

life - G2222 ζωή zōē

and in the age to come eternal life - so is this a limited time offer ??

The sense of αἰώνιον in these contexts is "until X is finished".

So while ζωὴν αἰώνιον doesn't really mean "eternal life" in the strict sense of the words, it does in the contextual use because the life of/in heaven never gets finished, so there is no end, while punishment can be completed and thus come to an end.

So the source you have in italics fails -- yes, its the same word, but the difference is that the full sense of the word rests with what is being described.

[Marilyn C]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:08 AM, Vine Abider said:

A few weeks ago someone here mentioned that they'd like to see a discussion about hell. Up until about a year ago, I hadn't given the topic much time, pretty much thinking that it was a binary thing - if one isn't a regenerated believer in Christ, they will burn forever consciously (aka lake of fire). But a brother who hosts a daily radio show, Steve Gregg, talked about the subject several times and I started to realize I really didn't know what I thought I knew about the subject. And also that views other than what I held (the traditional, eternal, conscious torment view) had some interesting arguments from scripture I wasn't so aware of . . . I realized I had just a superficial knowledge at best. 

So since this is an important topic, considering that "hell" may be the future destiny of unbelievers around me, I thought to get the book brother Steve wrote on the subject. It is a thoughtful and well researched book and is called, "All You wanted to Know about Hell - Three Christian views of God's final solution to the problem of sin." on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/All-Want-Know-About-Hell/dp/1401678300

The 3 views of Hell presented are:

1. Traditionalism - eternal conscious torment 

2. Annihilationism - soul is no more 

3. Universalism - all people eventually restored to God

Regarding these three views, Steve goes into church history quite a bit and painstakingly breaks down scripture for each of these view. His stated goal is just to present these views and not to draw his own conclusions. I found it a very fascinating read, to say the least - I would highly recommend it for anyone wanting to really dive into what the word says on this topic, and to also get an understanding of how these different views came about.

Personally, I lean toward something of a mix of these . . . (big reveal: mix of traditionalism & annihilationism)

Frankly, I still can't say I know for sure what hell is all about, and I'm not "dogmatically married" to any of these 3 views, so I just tell others, "Whatever it is, the bottom-line is this - IT'S NOT GOOD and therefore is something to avoid at all costs! And the only way to do that is salvation through Jesus Christ!"

FYI & Exhortation: We batted this topic around on another Christian forum for a good while . . . I hafta say some got their feathers ruffled a bit, when their favorite view of hell came under sharp scrutiny. I hope this won't get too "ornery" on here, and that we remember this is not a core essential of our Christian faith. Let's just have some family discussion, not get too intense, and see what light the Lord Spirit will shine on the subject! (aka - let the fun begin )

PS: Anyone interested in seeing Steve Gregg do a really good lecture on these three views, it can be found by going to Youtube and searching for: Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg

Hi VA,

Can count on you to have these interesting discussions.

So, my view is that eternal life is through Christ, and eternal damnation is without that life. Then we know that death and hades were cast into the lake of fire.

The `lake` is a set area, and `fire,` is related to the being, the soul/spirit that is disconnected from God`s nurturing, upholding presence. 

Thus, without a physical body these spirits are only conscience of themselves and having rejected God`s salvation they `burn` with regret, and are `tormented` by their own thoughts that are continually accusing.

Marilyn.

[Marathoner]

I was on my phone earlier, and I don't know how to copy and paste passage of scripture to my posts using that interface. I wanted to share what I believe to be a key passage from Matthew's Gospel regarding what the lake of fire symbolizes:

Destruction.

"A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. It is enough for the disciple that he may become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they insult the members of his household!

"So do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. What I tell you in the darkness, tell in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim on the housetops. And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are two sparrows not sold for an assarion? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all counted. So do not fear; you are more valuable than a great number of sparrows." (Matthew 1o:24-31 NASB)

I've never cared for the annihilationist moniker, for that fails to communicate the doctrine which our Lord imparted to us in the passage above. "Eternal Destruction" is certainly more accurate, for God is the only one capable of destroying both the body and soul in hell/Gehenna/the lake of fire. I believe all three are synonymous. 

Hades (Greek) is the grave, or Sheol (Hebrew) as expressed in the Hebrew Scriptures. So, death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire according to the judgment of the Lord, which completes the passing away of former things. We remember that the earth and heaven fled before the Lord seated upon the Great White Throne (Revelation 20:11), so the judgment of the dead and the disposition of the condemned follow in its wake. 

Eternal destruction is a relative term which measures death according to its place:

This body of flesh is destroyed when we perish on this earth. That's the first death, and all of us are subject to this. This is not eternal, for the dead shall be resurrected by the Lord at the end of all things to be judged according to their works. 

The apostle Paul informs us regarding our estate, meaning those whose lives are hidden in Jesus Christ. We pass from this earth to be with the Lord in fullness. As the Lord said, we shall never taste death, and the second death has no power over us. We will not be with the dead who are judged according to their works...

Not at all. We shall judge angels instead.  

Eternal destruction in the lake of fire is permanent and will never change. This is the second death. There is no other resurrection for the condemned.

Eternal life is permanent and is given by the Son of the living God. There will be no other resurrection for us, for we will never die. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Marathoner

[Waggles]

16 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

OK, I'll bite: "Many, many Christians will also not make it" . . . where?

Why would they not given the state of Christian faith and practices these days?