Chosen to Salvation

[enoob57]

The Scripture teaches of only two destinations: heaven or hell.

[FreeGrace]

Until someone can quote a verse that plainly says that salvation is by election, there is no reason to believe such a teaching.  

Rather, the Bible is very clear about the doctrine of election.  God chooses people for SERVICE, not salvation.

Examples:

Eph 1:4 -  For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

Paul defined who the "us" in v.4 are in v.19 this way:  "us who believe".  That means 1:4 is about God choosing believers.  And the purpose?  "to be holy and blameless", which is about service, not salvation.

1 Cor 1-

=27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 

28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,

Red words are who God chooses; the elect.  Blue words refer to the purpose of His choosing; which is service.

1 Peter 1:2 -  who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Again, red words refer to the chosen.  Blue words refer to the purpose of election, which is service.  

Edited January 12, 2023 by FreeGrace

[farouk]

26 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Until someone can quote a verse that plainly says that salvation is by election, there is no reason to believe such a teaching.  

Rather, the Bible is very clear about the doctrine of election.  God chooses people for SERVICE, not salvation.

Examples:

Eph 1:4 -  For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

Paul defined who the "us" in v.4 are in v.19 this way:  "us who believe".  That means 1:4 is about God choosing believers.  And the purpose?  "to be holy and blameless", which is about service, not salvation.

1 Cor 1-

=27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 

28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,

Red words are who God chooses; the elect.  Blue words refer to the purpose of His choosing; which is service.

1 Peter 1:2 -  who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Again, red words refer to the chosen.  Blue words refer to the purpose of election, which is service.  

This can make it seem as if works and supposed human merit supersede the grace of God at conversion, whereas I would see Ephesians teaching that it is all of electing grace - otherwise not at all.

[farouk]

8 hours ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

@David1701...Look at this scripture.

What is Jesus saying here to Nicodemus,....?

You must be “ Born Again” to see the Kingdom of God.

Which is an act of God....see with those spiritual eyes, hear with that new heart?...we have been birthed by the living Holy Spirit, he’s alive and active!

From what I’m reading and believe in my heart/ spirit.....which is God’s word so very plainly.....you must be born again first and foremost.....which is a supernatural act from God and only God.how else can we communicate with the Holy Spirit, if we aren’t  Born Again?..as soon as we are born again we are saved.

Which is plain to see in his word.

i have even posted this scripture here, the wind blows, a member replied, I won’t mention their name, it doesn’t mean what I think it says..it’s pretty self explanatory isn’t it?....who wouldn’t know what this means, if they have been “ birthed in the Spirit “ as it’s a “ living birth”?..that only God can do?

◄ John 3:8 ►

Context    Crossref    Comment    Greek  Verse  (Click for Chapter) New International Version The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”   ◄ Titus 3:5 ► Verse  (Click for Chapter) NASB 1995 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, American Standard Version not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, Berean Study Bible He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

 

• Your Content

 

 

 

John 3:1-21

 

New International Version

 

 

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. ² He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

³ Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.^[a]”

⁴ “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

⁵ Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.⁶ Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit^[b] gives birth to spirit. ⁷ You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You^[c] must be born again.’ ⁸ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”^[d]

Great Scriptures there, @Rosie1jack2pauline3 .......

It's all of grace..........

[FreeGrace]

36 minutes ago, farouk said:

This can make it seem as if works and supposed human merit supersede the grace of God at conversion, whereas I would see Ephesians teaching that it is all of electing grace - otherwise not at all.

No, it doesn't "seem as if works and supposed human merit supersede the grace of God at conversion".  Of course salvation is by grace.  The Bible says so.  But the Bible does not say that God elects or chooses for salvation, especially not unconditional election. 

The Bible is very clear that salvation is through faith.  Eph 2:8.  Paul's answer to the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved was to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ".  Is that an effort, or works?  No.  It is simply a positive response to the promise of salvation.

Most of evangelicalism thinks that election is to salvation, but there is no evidence for that from the Bible.  We all must be more Berean-like in our study of the Word.

God chooses for service, which even includes Judas.  John 6:70,71 - 

70 Then Jesus replied,  “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

This is every bit as much of an election as any other verse on election.

1 Cor 1:21 -  For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

For those who will insist that God chooses who will be saved, this verse supports that.  God chooses to save "those who believe".

Responding to the gospel message isn't a work.  It is a trust issue.

[farouk]

2 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

No, it doesn't "seem as if works and supposed human merit supersede the grace of God at conversion".  Of course salvation is by grace.  The Bible says so.  But the Bible does not say that God elects or chooses for salvation, especially not unconditional election. 

The Bible is very clear that salvation is through faith.  Eph 2:8.  Paul's answer to the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved was to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ".  Is that an effort, or works?  No.  It is simply a positive response to the promise of salvation.

Most of evangelicalism thinks that election is to salvation, but there is no evidence for that from the Bible.  We all must be more Berean-like in our study of the Word.

God chooses for service, which even includes Judas.  John 6:70,71 - 

70 Then Jesus replied,  “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

This is every bit as much of an election as any other verse on election.

1 Cor 1:21 -  For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

For those who will insist that God chooses who will be saved, this verse supports that.  God chooses to save "those who believe".

Responding to the gospel message isn't a work.  It is a trust issue.

There is also 2 Thessalonians 2.13: "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth".

[FreeGrace]

59 minutes ago, farouk said:

There is also 2 Thessalonians 2.13: "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth".

I'm glad you quoted this verse.  The word "chosen" here is not the Greek word used throughout for election.  The Greek verb for election is eklegomai.  The Greek verb in 2 Thess 2:13 is haireomai.  Easy to see that they are unrelated.

Yes, both are about choosing, but we don't call a presidential ELECTION a presidential choosing, do we?

An election infers a more formal action than simply picking out (choosing) one's sox in the morning.  Or picking out of the freezer the food you will cook for dinner.

And, the verse has nothing to do with the choice for salvation, but rather the basis of salvation, which chose for the basis of salvation.

So, the verse teaches that "God...chose you to salvation THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit AND AND AND belief of the truth".

So the verse addresses the basis of our salvation, which is "belief in the truth".

We find the exact same principle in 1 Cor 1:21 -  For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

This verse addresses the basis for saving people.  God is pleased (to choose for salvation) "those who believe".

What is not taught in the Bible is that God decides who will believe, which is the foundation for the Calvinist doctrine of election.  That God regenerates the "elect" so that they will believe.

[David1701]

19 hours ago, enoob57 said:

not one of these verses says regeneration precedes faith... you might as well give up for the calvinist have not be able to produce a verse since the early church has challenged for such... I have studied and it simple is not there ... you see it cause it's in your head but it is not written down anywhere as such. There is this that clearly says 

1 Peter 1:5 (KJV)

[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
                                                        faith           regeneration
notice the ordo salutis= 'through faith' UNTO 'salvation'
your claim is salvation unto faith, and it's just not there plainly seen...
                  'regeneration'      faith            

 

Being born again, on its own, saves no-one.  I am absolutely not claiming "salvation unto faith"!

As I proved with Scripture, being born again is necessary for anyone to believe in Jesus Christ; however, you cannot be said to be saved until you have believed.

[David1701]

8 hours ago, NickyLouse said:

Perhaps the kingdom is not inherited by all believers.

It is.

[David1701]

13 hours ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

@David1701...Look at this scripture.

What is Jesus saying here to Nicodemus,....?

You must be “ Born Again” to see the Kingdom of God.

Which is an act of God....see with those spiritual eyes, hear with that new heart?...we have been birthed by the living Holy Spirit, he’s alive and active!

From what I’m reading and believe in my heart/ spirit.....which is God’s word so very plainly.....you must be born again first and foremost.....which is a supernatural act from God and only God.how else can we communicate with the Holy Spirit, if we aren’t  Born Again?..as soon as we are born again we are saved.

Which is plain to see in his word.

i have even posted this scripture here, the wind blows, a member replied, I won’t mention their name, it doesn’t mean what I think it says..it’s pretty self explanatory isn’t it?....who wouldn’t know what this means, if they have been “ birthed in the Spirit “ as it’s a “ living birth”?..that only God can do?

◄ John 3:8 ►

Context    Crossref    Comment    Greek  Verse  (Click for Chapter) New International Version The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”   ◄ Titus 3:5 ► Verse  (Click for Chapter) NASB 1995 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, American Standard Version not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, Berean Study Bible He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

 

• Your Content

 

 

 

John 3:1-21

 

New International Version

 

 

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. ² He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

³ Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.^[a]”

⁴ “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

⁵ Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.⁶ Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit^[b] gives birth to spirit. ⁷ You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You^[c] must be born again.’ ⁸ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”^[d]

Yes; if someone has been born again, he knows it (even if he doesn't know the correct expression yet).  It changes you - dramatically, from darkness to light, from death to life, from unbelief to faith.  It is a miraculous work of God, not a product of the sinful human will.

This is why, when I hear some people say things like, "I made the decision to believe in Jesus and now I'm saved.", alarm bells go off in my head.  How can anyone whom God has saved, make such a statement?  It's a sign of dead religion, not living relationship.