If God created the souls of birthed babies, why they are under the bondage of sins ?

[chesed]

10 hours ago, Roymond said:

That 'jingle' is interesting in that it mixes two different models scripture uses to convey the idea of what happens in salvation.  Western Christianity has focused on the "debt" model heavily, but the "washed" model is abundant in scripture as well.

As well as the ‘rescuer’, ‘ransomer’, ‘redeemer’ motif.

Edited February 11, 2023 by chesed

[Roymond]

4 minutes ago, chesed said:

It has quite a bit to do with purgatory when it comes to the selling of indulgences.

I already addressed that:  selling indulgences had no connection to purgatory except the false claim that money could buy "time off" a purgatory sentence -- a proposition that contains (as a Roman Catholic Cardinal stated recently) three distinct errors.  So no, it doesn't have anything to do with purgatory any more than the notion that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had children who settled in Britain has to do with the Resurrection (note that there are people who actually believe this!).

4 minutes ago, chesed said:

Paul speaks in terms of ‘working out one’s salvation’ in light of the fact that it is ‘God who is working in us. I suppose one could say ‘we are infused by the Holy Spirit’ but then we are in the realm of sanctification.

 I believe in Jesus, we have all the grace we need.

For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. — John 1:17

And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.
— 2 Corinthians 12:9

"Infused Spirit"?  That brings to mind a medieval monk who explained sanctification as our feeble spirits crippled by sin being slowly healed and made whole until we are like Christ. 

At any rate yes, it's a better proposition that "infused grace".

[Roymond]

8 minutes ago, chesed said:

As well as the ‘rescuer’, ‘ransomer’, ‘redeemer’ motif.

The "ransom" motif has spun off some odd conceptions, the foremost being that Jesus paid a ransom to Satan.  Another prominent one is that the ransom was paid to Death, who was "owed" every soul that sinned.

I like the redeemer model because it inherently declares that we are Jesus' family, since in the Old Testament a redeemer had to be a close relative.  That says we are family even before the Cross, that He came to claim what was already His own.

One "closer than a brother" indeed!

[chesed]

14 minutes ago, Roymond said:

I already addressed that:  selling indulgences had no connection to purgatory except the false claim that money could buy "time off" a purgatory sentence -- a proposition that contains (as a Roman Catholic Cardinal stated recently) three distinct errors.  So no, it doesn't have anything to do with purgatory any more than the notion that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had children who settled in Britain has to do with the Resurrection (note that there are people who actually believe this!).

Perhaps, yet purgatory has no more basis in Scripture than, 'God helps those who help themselves'.

17 minutes ago, Roymond said:

"Infused Spirit"?  That brings to mind a medieval monk who explained sanctification as our feeble spirits crippled by sin being slowly healed and made whole until we are like Christ. 

At any rate yes, it's a better proposition that "infused grace".

If Christians insist on infusion, there's always that possibility.

[chesed]

18 minutes ago, Roymond said:

That says we are family even before the Cross, that He came to claim what was already His own.

The problem with that is why did He predestinate only 'some' of His family?

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love — Ephesians 1:4

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. — Romans 8:29-30

[Neighbor]

On 1/14/2023 at 7:20 AM, R. Hartono said:

Isn't God omnipotent ? Why did He keep creating billions of sinful souls under bondage of sins ? 

Why cant God create these souls sinless like Adam ? If He still create those souls of birthed babies.

Just asking.

The above is the opening post of the topic of this thread.

The topic: If God created the souls of birthed babies, why they are under the bondage of sins ?

[chesed]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

The above is the opening post of the topic of this thread.

The topic: If God created the souls of birthed babies, why they are under the bondage of sins ?

Fine, in that case, I would say God doesn't create sinful souls (as stated in the OP) as He isn't the author of evil. They are under the bondage of sin, because of Adam’s sin.

Edited February 11, 2023 by chesed

[Your closest friendnt]

13 minutes ago, chesed said:

Fine, in that case, I would say God doesn't create sinful souls (as stated in the OP) as He isn't the author of evil. They are under the bondage of sin, because of Adam’s sin.

The OP is referring to something he read in the scriptures and he has apply it to himself and to all mankind...

He applies that to himself and that's he sees everyone else no matter what...

He is not making any distinctions not in his post..

What he wants to say that everyone because of Adam's disobedience is born in the death of Adam...he is conceived in Sin and in Adam's Death..

According to truth in scriptures this statement is incorrect...

Now I made a statement and I need to follow it up with my argument that gives rise to my statement...I need to support what I believe it is the truth in this matter and so scriptures reference. 

[HAZARD]

The Bible makes it clear that people are condemned to hell on the basis of their sins and their rejection of Jesus Christ as the remedy for their sinful condition.



However, infants and young children are incapable of fully understanding either their spiritual condition or God's requirements for salvation.



Can God judge them even though they don't understand the basis of that judgment? THE BIBLE DOES INDICATE THAT CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT, for example, when describing how some of the Israelites in the Valley of Benhinnom had become corrupt so as to sacrifice their own (innocent) children:





Jer. 19:4-5, V 4, Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the BLOOD OF THE INNOCENTS;

5, They have built also the high places of Baal, TO BURN THEIR SONS WITH FIRE for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:



2 Kings 17: 17, And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.



Psalms 106:37-38, V 37, Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,

38, AND SHED INNOCENT BLOOD, EVEN THE BLOOD OF THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.



GOD SAYS CHILDREN BELONG TO HIM,



Ezek. 16:20-21, V. 20, Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,

21, THAT THOU HAST SLAIN MY CHILDREN, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?



JESUS SAID THAT PEOPLE WHO ENTER HEAVEN ARE LIKE CHILDREN, IMPLYING THAT CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN.



Matthew 18:2-3, V. 2, And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.



Matthew 19:13-14, V. 13, Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.

14, But Jesus said, SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN, and forbid them not, to come unto me: FOR OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

[Your closest friendnt]

The OP is asking questions in his opening post and it seems that he is addressing a crowd that have set their minds to a mutual agreement with what he is standing for in his posting.

Which I quote below. 

[{(Hartono said in his Original post copy and paste bellow.........."Isn't God omnipotent ? Why did He keep creating billions of sinful souls under bondage of sins ? 

Why cant God create these souls sinless like Adam ? If He still create those souls of birthed babies.

Just asking.")}]

He did not give any scripture reference that his statement in the first paragraph of his opening statement are truth..

He post believing that he is not in error when he posted that... but he did not post anything from scriptures to cause a discussion at the same time neither he has posted anything to show why he believes that is a truthful  statement