Man was in Pangaea

[dad2]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:15 AM, The Barbarian said:

Why not just accept it as is?   If you let the Bible decide for you, you won't have to try to re-define the word to fit your wishes.

 

It is what it is. Of all the words available that are part of the definition, you have two choices. Either look for one that fits and leaves God and the bible looking good. Or look for one that seems to throw doubt on them. Try the former sometime.

[dad2]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:15 AM, The Barbarian said:

If you redefine words to fit your hopes, you'll be constantly misled.

 

The word was not defined by anything to do with the sun when used in Gen 1. No one needs to weld the bible to try to fit your little doubt regimen.

[dad2]

3 minutes ago, dad2 said:

The word was not defined by anything to do with the sun when used in Gen 1. No one needs to weld the bible to try to fit your little doubt scheme.

 

[The Barbarian]

As you've been reminded, words mean things.   And both of those words require a sun.

 

[Retrobyter]

13 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

As you've been reminded, words mean things.   And both of those words require a sun.

 

Shalom, The Barbarian.

When you watch a sunrise, are you seeing the sun come up? NO! You are seeing the LIGHT FROM the sun! When you watch a sunset, you're not watching the sun set in the west; you're seeing the LIGHT FROM the sun.

My point is, that IF the light were coming to earth AS THOUGH the photons came from an actual sun, would you know the difference? We are told in Scripture that God MADE THE LIGHT! He created the photons as easily as He created atoms made of protons, neutrons, and electrons!

God is OMNIPRESENT; that is, He is EVERYWHERE  IN THE UNIVERSE AT THE SAME TIME! In fact, I believe that He sees "time" as just another dimension. He could create the whole beam of light from one end to the other in a single moment! He didn't need a "star" or a "sun" to "generate" that light! He doesn't have to wait for light to arrive from a "source."

Neither the word "`ereV" (עֶ֥רֶב) nor the word "boqer" (בֹ֖קֶר) require a sun; all they need is the LIGHT from where a sun might be!

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, The Barbarian.

When you watch a sunrise, are you seeing the sun come up? NO! You are seeing the LIGHT FROM the sun! When you watch a sunset, you're not watching the sun set in the west; you're seeing the LIGHT FROM the sun.

 

Which is my point.    When we see a moonrise, we are seeing photons from the Sun as well   But. a moonrise is not morning.  For that, a sun is necessary.

So the Hebrews had it right.   A sun is necessary for mornings and evenings, which is why the text itself tells us that it is not literal days in the creation story.

 

[Retrobyter]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:02 PM, The Barbarian said:

Which is my point.    When we see a moonrise, we are seeing photons from the Sun as well   But. a moonrise is not morning.  For that, a sun is necessary.

Shalom, The Barbarian.

Nope. You still don't get it. Let me try one more time:

On Day 1, God created the LIGHT א֑וֹר "'owr" and separated it from DARKNESS  חשֶׁךְ "choshekh"! There was no "sun" or "moon," yet. In Hebrew, no שֶׁמֶשׁ "shemesh" or יָרֵחַ "yaareeach," yet. In fact, those words are not even found in Genesis 1 and 2. Imagine first that all the light was random. Then, to separate it from darkness, He made all the light rays PARALLEL, creating a shadow on the earth opposite the direction of the light rays.

As one passes from the light rays into the shadow, one has עֶ֥רֶב "`ereV" or "evening"; as one passes out of the shadow into the light, one has בֹ֖קֶר "boqer" or "morning!" The word for sun, שֶׁמֶשׁ "shemesh," is not connected with either word! They are STRICTLY connected to the א֑וֹר "'owr" the "light" and its relationship to חשֶׁךְ "choshekh" the "darkness." The earth has STILL been set in motion to the exposure of the light, a 24-hour cycle!

Then, we read on Day 4,

וַיַּ֣עַשׂ אֱלֹהִ֔ים אֶת־שְׁנֵ֥י הַמְּאֹרֹ֖ת הַגְּדֹלִ֑ים אֶת־הַמָּאֹ֤ור הַגָּדֹל֙ לְמֶמְשֶׁ֣לֶת הַיֹּ֔ום וְאֶת־הַמָּאֹ֤ור הַקָּטֹן֙ לְמֶמְשֶׁ֣לֶת הַלַּ֔יְלָה וְאֵ֖ת הַכֹּוכָבִֽים׃

This transliterates to ...

16 Vayya`as 'Elohiym 'et-shneey hamm'orot haggdoliym 'et-hammaa'owr haggaadol l-memshelet hayyowm v'et-hammaa'owr haqqaaTon l-memshelet hallaylaah v'et hakowkhaaViym:

This translates word-for-word to ...

16 And-made God (d.o.->)-two the-from-lights the-bright (d.o.->)-the-from-light the brighter to-rule the-day and-(d.o.->)-the-from-light the-dimmer to-rule the-night and-(d.o.->) the-round-objects:

So, God made two "bright from-lights," the brighter "from-light" to rule the day, and the dimmer "from-light" to rule the night. Before, the light rays were parallel; now, He has focused them to points of light. The rays are no longer parallel but converge to places where a potential "source" might be located.

Then, we also see at the end, God also made ... "the round-objects." These are the stars, the sun, the moon, the planets, etc. These are objects from which the light from that point on, would be considered the "source" of that light, the embodiment of the "from-lights" at those focal points! God made some to generate their own light, and He made some to reflect the light of those that generate their own light.

This last paragraph, was almost presented as an "afterthought!" So there are THREE words that are direct objects of the action of "God making": the brighter "from-light," the dimmer "from-light," and the "round-objects."

On 2/19/2023 at 4:02 PM, The Barbarian said:

So the Hebrews had it right.   A sun is necessary for mornings and evenings, which is why the text itself tells us that it is not literal days in the creation story.

I don't know to which "Hebrews" you are referring, but the HEBREW language has it right. A sun is NOT necessary for mornings and evenings, and the text here gives us the language clues to know these were literal, 24-hour, day-night cycles, same as in Exodus 20:

Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 SIX DAYS shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in SIX DAYS the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The highlighted and underlined words are the SAME WORDS, both in English and in Hebrew!

 

[teddyv]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

He made all the light rays PARALLEL, creating a shadow on the earth opposite the direction of the light rays.

As one passes from the light rays into the shadow, one has עֶ֥רֶב "`ereV" or "evening"; as one passes out of the shadow into the light, one has בֹ֖קֶר "boqer" or "morning!" The word for sun, שֶׁמֶשׁ "shemesh," is not connected with either word! They are STRICTLY connected to the א֑וֹר "'owr" the "light" and its relationship to חשֶׁךְ "choshekh" the "darkness." The earth has STILL been set in motion to the exposure of the light, a 24-hour cycle!

There is no scriptural support for this.

You are speculating (or possibly hypothesizing), but I am not sure how you could test (or even claim) that all the light was parallel from the source at Creation. 

[The Barbarian]

43 minutes ago, teddyv said:

There is no scriptural support for this.

You are speculating (or possibly hypothesizing), but I am not sure how you could test (or even claim) that all the light was parallel from the source at Creation. 

Right.  And of course that reasoning would require that we change the meanings of "morning" and "evening" in both Hebrew and English.  It seems more logical to just  accept it as the figurative account it is.

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by The Barbarian

[dad2]

On 2/18/2023 at 7:00 PM, The Barbarian said:

As you've been reminded, words mean things.   And both of those words require a sun.

 

Contrary to your claim, there is no sun required on a day before a sun existed. Restricting the meaning of day based on some after the fact definition is just unbelief in drag.

Edited February 28, 2023 by dad2