If There Is A Rapture...

[Mr. M]

1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, 

even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Not trying to oversimplify, but this is one verse that suggests that the Church is removed

before the bowls of God's wrath are poured out during the Final Tribulation. 

If this is Truth, then the Lord would have brought the Israelites out of Egypt first, then

poured out judgments on them, as this is clearly the type and foreshadowing. No, they went 

through unscathed, then plundered the Egyptians.

Isaiah 23:

17 And it shall be, at the end of seventy years, that the Lord will deal with Tyre.

She will return to her hire, and commit fornication with all the kingdoms

of the world on the face of the earth. 

18 Her gain and her pay will be set apart for the Lord; it will not be treasured nor laid up,

for her gain will be for those who dwell before the Lord, to eat sufficiently, and for fine clothing.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Mr. M

[WilliamL]

4 hours ago, Mr. M said:

1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Not trying to oversimplify, but this is one verse that suggests that the Church is removed before the bowls of God's wrath are poured out during the Final Tribulation. 

If this is Truth, then the Lord would have brought the Israelites out of Egypt first, then poured out judgments on them, as this is clearly the type and foreshadowing. No, they went through unscathed, then plundered the Egyptians.

Actually, God brought the Israelites out of Egypt to "test" them (Ex. 15:25 etc.); which He did with a series of harsh trials, including threat of famine, thirst, and war with that nations of Amalek. These were then followed by the great cataclysmic signs at Mount Sinai, when the Lord descended to call up his elect upon the mountain.

All which were types and foreshadowings of the testing of the Church to come, by the Revelation's first 5 Seals = Matthew 24:5-13, being the Great Tribulation. Which will be then followed by the great cataclysmic signs of the 6th Seal, when the Lord will descend to call up his elect upon heavenly Mount Zion. Heb. 12:22

49. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 2

The Seven Seals. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1992-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-2/

 

[Mr. M]

15 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Actually, God brought the Israelites out of Egypt to "test" them (Ex. 15:25 etc.); which He did with a series of harsh trials, including threat of famine, thirst, and war with that nations of Amalek. These were then followed by the great cataclysmic signs at Mount Sinai, when the Lord descended to call up his elect upon the mountain.

 

Sure, all these things took place, they were tested time and again, but that is certainly not the reason God brought them out. That statement is quite misleading and I have to reject the notion based on a more solid Biblical truth.

Genesis 15:

13 Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. 14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 Now as for you, you shall [d]go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:

“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

I suppose you have a right to promote your blog on my thread, but based on what I have already seen in

your post, I won't be visiting any time soon. What does it have to do with the notion of a rapture?

That is the topic. Interpret the seven seals as you see fit. Shalom

[WilliamL]

38 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

I suppose you have a right to promote your blog on my thread, but based on what I have already seen in

your post, I won't be visiting any time soon. What does it have to do with the notion of a rapture?

The first six seals encompass the events that will take place immediately before the Rapture, which will take place when the Lord is revealed right after the cataclysmic events of the 6th Seal.

This is a not uncommon view held by other teachers here in the Prophecy/Eschatology forums. But you are new here, so I'll give you a pass. Now you know.

Edited February 28, 2023 by WilliamL

[Mr. M]

12 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

The first six seals encompass the events that will take place immediately before the Rapture, which will take place when the Lord is revealed right after the cataclysmic events of the 6th Seal.

If you say so. I remain without interest, and certainly never sought anyone's interpretation of Revelation.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things

which are written in it ; for the time is near. ( ('keeping' does not imply 'interpreting'))

Romans 14:22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. 

Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

13 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

This is a not uncommon view held by other teachers here in the Prophecy/Eschatology forums.

A meaningless appeal to what is lacking any authority. And a ridiculous double negative to boot.

15 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

But you are new here, so I'll give you a pass.

Not new, didn't become a Christian four months ago when I joined this forum.

I don't need a pass from you, or was that a joke? Or are you really that condescending?

 

16 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Now you know.

I know all too well. Remaining without interest. Do you really think that you are educating me?

Next class, mark me absent. M

[WilliamL]

32 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Not new, didn't become a Christian four months ago when I joined this forum.

You are quite new to the Prophecy/Eschatology forum, compared to others posting here.

33 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Do you really think that you are educating me?

As you've made very clear, you are not interested in being educated about the various rapture views discussed in the Prophecy/Eschatology forum. You have your own box, and you are quite content with it.

[farouk]

In 1 Corinthians 11.26 - "ye do show the Lord's death till He come" - it is not the Gentiles or Israel in view, but the church: this verse alone makes it hard (in my humble thinking) to argue against the existence of the rapture of the church, which by definition involves the church as opposed to other entities.

[Mr. M]

4 minutes ago, farouk said:

In 1 Corinthians 11.26 - "ye do show the Lord's death till He come" - it is not the Gentiles or Israel in view, but the church: this verse alone makes it hard (in my humble thinking) to argue against the existence of the rapture of the church, which by definition involves the church as opposed to other entities.

Since the context of the statement is the need for the church to break covenant

bread together in a worthy manner, that is what we must do until He comes.

The Church is Israel, being remnant Jews and called Gentiles by the election of Grace. 

I am not sure what relevance there could be for "other entities".

Paul is teaching that many had already died, and he attributed this to a

failure to discern the body of Christ. (The Church).

29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks 

judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 

30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 

A rapture is the furthest thing from his mind. This is what is critical:

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you...

The entire chapter was concerned with proper fellowship. The only eschatology 

is to avoid judgment for what we fail to examine and judge ourselves on NOW,

TODAY in the proper conduct of church fellowship.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord,

that we may not be condemned with the world.

Taking a verse out of context, in this case v. 26 is inappropriate.

 

[farouk]

1 minute ago, Mr. M said:

Since the context of the statement is the need for the church to break covenant

bread together in a worthy manner, that is what we must do until He comes.

The Church is Israel, being remnant Jews and called Gentiles by the election of Grace. 

I am not sure what relevance there could be for "other entities".

Paul is teaching that many had already died, and he attributed this to a

failure to discern the body of Christ. (The Church).

29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks 

judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 

30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 

A rapture is the furthest thing from his mind. This is what is critical:

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you...

The entire chapter was concerned with proper fellowship. The only eschatology 

is to avoid judgment for what we fail to examine and judge ourselves on NOW,

TODAY in the proper conduct of church fellowship.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord,

that we may not be condemned with the world.

Taking a verse out of context, in this case v. 26 is inappropriate.

 

This kind of discussion can go on and on, but as regards your query, 1 Corinthians 10.32 refers to Jews, Gentiles and the church of God. Verse 26 in the next chapter clearly refers to the church.

This can be denied point-blank, but in my humble view it would then not be worth arguing against something that to me seems obvious from Scripture. Have a good day.

[R. Hartono]

The foolish virgins shall be left behind and scream. Doesnt this explain the rapture.