Four questions for YECs - (and a little history of creationism vs evolution)

[The Barbarian]

36 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

OK, thanks.  And I fully agree.  How do you square an OE with Gen 1 then, apart from a time gap or the YE view?

Since the text makes it clear that the days are not literal ones, (can't have mornings and evenings before there is a sun) it's not a problem.

 

[Sparks]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I believe Genesis 1 is a literal 6 day restoration of the planet, so God could place the human species on it.

The problem here is that people see the term replenish, and think this is a clue that the world once stood before Genesis, but you have to use a 1611 dictionary before you realize that replenish simply meant to fill, not to fill again. 

You cannot use modern dictionaries, or you will get the wrong idea.

[Sparks]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

OK, let's take another tack.  Do you believe the earth is only 6 days older than Adam, or much older, whether in years, or millennia?

Genesis described 24 hour days, so no years nor millennia.  Certainly not trillions of years.  

It's interesting to note, but I believe God actually wrote that first book of Genesis. 

There are 10 authors in Genesis with different writing styles, including God (obviously we were not around for some the very beginning, and so he described things for us).  Each section is generational, called Toledoths.  

Each Toldot says, "These are the Generations of ..."

– Creation – Genesis 2:4
– Adam – Genesis 5:1
– Noah and his sons – Genesis 6:9; 10:1, 32
– Shem – Genesis 11:10
– Terah – 11:27
– Ishmael – Genesis 25:12-13; 1 Chronicles 1:29
– Isaac – Genesis 25:19
– Esau – Genesis 36:1, 9
– Jacob – Genesis 37:2

For example from the KJV, Genesis 11:10

10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood: 11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.

[Alive]

4 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Genesis described 24 hour days, so no years nor millennia.  Certainly not trillions of years.  

It's interesting to note, but I believe God actually wrote that first book of Genesis. 

There are 10 authors in Genesis with different writing styles, including God (obviously we were not around for some the very beginning, and so he described things for us).  Each section is generational, called Toledoths.  

Each Toldot says, "These are the Generations of ..."

– Creation – Genesis 2:4
– Adam – Genesis 5:1
– Noah and his sons – Genesis 6:9; 10:1, 32
– Shem – Genesis 11:10
– Terah – 11:27
– Ishmael – Genesis 25:12-13; 1 Chronicles 1:29
– Isaac – Genesis 25:19
– Esau – Genesis 36:1, 9
– Jacob – Genesis 37:2

 

Interesting. I do not think I have heard this before. However, if we believe all scripture is inspired by and actually His words to us…is it not true that He wrote it all. The only distinction I can think of is the tablets.

[Sparks]

11 minutes ago, Alive said:

Interesting. I do not think I have heard this before. However, id we believe all scripture is inspired by and actually His words to us…is it not true that He wrote it all. The only distinction I can think of is the tablets.

He didn't write it all.  Just the 10 commandments (Exodus 20) and the very beginning when there was no one around to see things. 

Many believe Moses wrote these, and he might have been an editor. 

P.S., perhaps you mean the Holy Spirit inspired the authors and helped them to remember?  I was referring to God writing tablets with his own finger, in stone.

[Sparks]

4 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

They invented YE Creationism.  

They didn't invent it.

4 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

First, the universe is a few billion years old, based on the evidence.  

There is no evidence because you cannot measure those great distances, and I say trillions because you might as well say trillions.  I want you to sense how dumb the idea is, so I used trillions.

[FreeGrace]

41 minutes ago, Sparks said:

FreeGrace said: 

I believe Genesis 1 is a literal 6 day restoration of the planet, so God could place the human species on it.

The problem here is that people see the term replenish, and think this is a clue that the world once stood before Genesis, but you have to use a 1611 dictionary before you realize that replenish simply meant to fill, not to fill again. 

You cannot use modern dictionaries, or you will get the wrong idea.

I didn't focus on the word "replenish".  I focused on several key words in v.2 that are obviously translated differently in most of the other uses in the OT.  That is key.

Since no one has an "old timey" dictionary, we are stuck with what we have.  And how would one recognize a Hebrew/Greek lexicon as either old-fashioned or modern?

[FreeGrace]

36 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Genesis described 24 hour days, so no years nor millennia.  Certainly not trillions of years.

I see those 6 24 hr-hour days as a restoration of a wasted planet.  Not original creation.

36 minutes ago, Sparks said:

It's interesting to note, but I believe God actually wrote that first book of Genesis.

I believe in the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for ALL the authors of the entire Bible.

36 minutes ago, Sparks said:

There are 10 authors in Genesis with different writing styles, including God (obviously we were not around for some the very beginning, and so he described things for us).  Each section is generational, called Toledoths.  

Each Toldot says, "These are the Generations of ..."

– Creation – Genesis 2:4
– Adam – Genesis 5:1
– Noah and his sons – Genesis 6:9; 10:1, 32
– Shem – Genesis 11:10
– Terah – 11:27
– Ishmael – Genesis 25:12-13; 1 Chronicles 1:29
– Isaac – Genesis 25:19
– Esau – Genesis 36:1, 9
– Jacob – Genesis 37:2

For example from the KJV, Genesis 11:10

10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood: 11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.

So, the description of "the generations" of various people means they themselves wrote their own history?

Why wouldn't Moses be able to do all that under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?  

[FreeGrace]

33 minutes ago, Sparks said:

He didn't write it all.  Just the 10 commandments (Exodus 20) and the very beginning when there was no one around to see things.

Seems to suggest that inspiration by the Holy Spirit ain't enough then.  

33 minutes ago, Sparks said:

 

Many believe Moses wrote these, and he might have been an editor.

So Moses "edited" what God wrote???

33 minutes ago, Sparks said:

P.S., perhaps you mean the Holy Spirit inspired the authors and helped them to remember?  I was referring to God writing tablets with his own finger, in stone.

That would be only thing directly written by God.  By inspiration, I mean the Holy Spirit so directed the writing that it came out EXACTLY the way God intended.  And without any human error to corrupt any of it.

[FreeGrace]

21 minutes ago, Sparks said:

There is no evidence because you cannot measure those great distances, and I say trillions because you might as well say trillions.  I want you to sense how dumb the idea is, so I used trillions.

Light-years IS a measurement, and of very great distances.  The speed of light IS measurable and given the speed per second, it is very easy to know the distance light travels in a year.  A very great distance indeed.