Four questions for YECs - (and a little history of creationism vs evolution)

[Sparks]

45 minutes ago, Alive said:

I do not know for certain whether the earth itself is old or new, but I am convinced that the geology of the present earth was formed by Noah's flood.

Indeed.  Scripture mentions that after the flood, God pushed things around to make the mountain ranges and deep oceans of today.  Some mountain ranges look as if they were crushed into place by God's hand.

As you can see below, Mount Saint Helens canyons were cut in a few hours, and we lived to see it.  No trillions of years, required.  They are about 140 feet deep, 1000 feet wide, cut in hours.

[Sparks]

48 minutes ago, teddyv said:

Ok. I accept the first statement as well. The narrative.of the Flood is certainly catastrophic but any evidence of it it appears to be hidden from us. I don't have any issue with anyone accepting the Flood as a divine miracle since that moves it out of the realm of scientific inquiry.

The alleged geologic column is the evidence you should be acknowledging.   That is what happens in a world-wide flood and is the wreckage of a flooded world, judged by God.  It's why you see polystrate fossils passing through the 'trillions of years' of alleged layers.

This image was chosen for clarity, but is just a model in some park.  It is an exact casting, though.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

My calculator doesn't have that many spaces.  Thanks!

Shalom, FreeGrace.

Just how old is your calculator?! Most calculators these days have an "EE" button for exponents over the "10" factor, and they will allow one to put in the numbers and then it will convert it into scientific notation.

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, teddyv said:

Ok. I accept the first statement as well. The narrative.of the Flood is certainly catastrophic but any evidence of it it appears to be hidden from us. I don't have any issue with anyone accepting the Flood as a divine miracle since that moves it out of the realm of scientific inquiry.

Shalom, teddyv.

Good! This is a positive start; however, the Flood was indeed a worldwide, cataclismic event; so, it was something one would EXPECT to find evidence for within the strata. That puts it BACK in the "realm of scientific inquiry." As Paul said about the Resurrection of our Lord, "this was NOT done in a corner!" The same thing is true about the Flood during Noach's lifetime, between his 600th birthday and his 601st birthday! It likewise was "not done in a corner!"

Taking it "out of the realm of scientific inquiry" doesn't put it into the realm of legends and myths and fairy tales. It was still a REAL EVENT!

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, FreeGrace.

Just how old is your calculator?! Most calculators these days have an "EE" button for exponents over the "10" factor, and they will allow one to put in the numbers and then it will convert it into scientific notation.

Like I said, my doctorate wasn't in math.  Thanks.  Anyway, I'm glad there are those who know these things.  

[The Barbarian]

8 hours ago, Sparks said:

The biggest problem for Grand Canyon is the Kiabab Uplift.

You got that wrong.  Uplift is what caused the Canyon.   But the Kaibab uplift... 

Here's the gist of the idea: A giant lake covering eastern Arizona ate through a limestone ridge called the Kaibab uplift, near the eastern end of the present-day Grand Canyon. A torrent of water spilled through the crack, cutting the canyon we see today. The Colorado River then followed the new course that was set.

No lake, no flood

The lake in question, called Hopi Lake or Lake Bidahochi, stretched approximately 112 miles (180 kilometers) across Arizona and New Mexico, a length equivalent to Utah's Great Salt Lake. The sediments left behind sit atop a great unconformity, a missing period of geologic time, with the 8-million-year-old lake silt blanketing the 225-million-year-old pink mudstone that forms the Painted Desert. [Grand Canyon in Pictures]

Called the Bidahochi Formation, the rocks are evidence of a shallow, ephemeral playa lake, not a deep basin large enough to buzz saw its way through the Grand Canyon, Dickinson argues.

"There's no evidence from sedimentology that it was ever a deep lake. It was a hardly a deep playa," Dickinson told OurAmazingPlanet.

Other researchers who have carefully re-analyzed the sediments have also found the lake was not there as long as previously thought, said Richard Young, a geology professor at the State University of New York in Geneseo. "There's no way the lake could have been there for 20 [million] or 10 million years," he told OurAmazingPlanet.

Plus, there's the problem of the Kaibab uplift, a pinch in the Colorado Plateau where the rocks swell up due to underground folding. Sitting near the head of the Grand Canyon, the Kaibab uplift is a 650-foot (250-meter) barrier that any prehistoric lake or river must have carved through before dropping down into the future gorge. The preserved lake beds show water levels were never high enough to cross the uplift, Dickinson said.

https://www.livescience.com/25640-grand-canyon-megaflood-debunked.html

[Sparks]

27 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

You got that wrong.  Uplift is what caused the Canyon.   But the Kaibab uplift... 

Here's the gist of the idea: A giant lake covering eastern Arizona ate through a limestone ridge called the Kaibab uplift, near the eastern end of the present-day Grand Canyon. A torrent of water spilled through the crack, cutting the canyon we see today. The Colorado River then followed the new course that was set.

No lake, no flood

The lake in question, called Hopi Lake or Lake Bidahochi, stretched approximately 112 miles (180 kilometers) across Arizona and New Mexico, a length equivalent to Utah's Great Salt Lake. The sediments left behind sit atop a great unconformity, a missing period of geologic time, with the 8-million-year-old lake silt blanketing the 225-million-year-old pink mudstone that forms the Painted Desert. [Grand Canyon in Pictures]

Called the Bidahochi Formation, the rocks are evidence of a shallow, ephemeral playa lake, not a deep basin large enough to buzz saw its way through the Grand Canyon, Dickinson argues.

"There's no evidence from sedimentology that it was ever a deep lake. It was a hardly a deep playa," Dickinson told OurAmazingPlanet.

Other researchers who have carefully re-analyzed the sediments have also found the lake was not there as long as previously thought, said Richard Young, a geology professor at the State University of New York in Geneseo. "There's no way the lake could have been there for 20 [million] or 10 million years," he told OurAmazingPlanet.

Plus, there's the problem of the Kaibab uplift, a pinch in the Colorado Plateau where the rocks swell up due to underground folding. Sitting near the head of the Grand Canyon, the Kaibab uplift is a 650-foot (250-meter) barrier that any prehistoric lake or river must have carved through before dropping down into the future gorge. The preserved lake beds show water levels were never high enough to cross the uplift, Dickinson said.

https://www.livescience.com/25640-grand-canyon-megaflood-debunked.html

Rivers don't flow up hill, even in the fairytale called the Evolution Theory.  As to what caused the canyon, it was a world-wide flood from God.

The canyon below was made in hours from a flood at Mount Saint Helen.  The rocks trapped in the moving water are like blades that cut.

This is deeper than it looks, notice the people in it shows the depth.

This, like the Grand Canyon, didn't take trillions of years to form.  This little canyon took just a few hours to form.

Photo credit to the guy who wrote his name on the wall of this canyon with Photoshop. 

[The Barbarian]

18 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Rivers don't flow up hill, even in the fairytale called the Evolution Theory. 

Your fairytale falls apart in the evidence, showing that as the levels of the plateau changed, rivers changed course and even direction.   See above.

 

24 minutes ago, Sparks said:

This is deeper than it looks, notice the people in it shows the depth.

Less than 50 meters in soft ash.   Notice how it slumps down at the base in piles of ash.    Compare to several kilometers of rock in the Grand Canyon.    Ever worse, the layers at the Grand Canyon show layers with deserts, forests, grasslands and sea bottom.  Don't see any of that in your gullies at Mt. St. Helens.

You seem to have made my argument for me.

 

[Sparks]

55 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Your fairytale falls apart in the evidence, showing that as the levels of the plateau changed, rivers changed course and even direction.   See above.

 

Less than 50 meters in soft ash.   Notice how it slumps down at the base in piles of ash.    Compare to several kilometers of rock in the Grand Canyon.    Ever worse, the layers at the Grand Canyon show layers with deserts, forests, grasslands and sea bottom.  Don't see any of that in your gullies at Mt. St. Helens.

You seem to have made my argument for me.

No, you just misinterpreted it.  Your friend behind the scenes likes to say that, but you are looking at a canyon 140 feet deep, and 1000 feet wide. 

[The Barbarian]

I just showed you that simple trigonometry can give you a rough estimate of the distance to the Andromeda Galaxy.

It has a diameter of about 200,000 light years, based on the number of sunlike stars in it.   To find the line bisecting the triangle composed of the Earth and each end of the galaxy, we divide 100,000 by the tangent of 3 degrees, which give us about 1.9 million light-years.   More accurate methods for measuring size and distance give us about 2.4 million light years.

So there's really no way to fit the universe into a YE doctrine.

8 hours ago, Sparks said:

I have told you that no distance measuring methods can tell you that the most distant stars are 14.6 billion light years away. 

You're wrong about that, but as you see, simple trigonometric analysis shows that the Andromeda Galaxy is about 2 million light-years away.   High School trig does it nicely.   And of course, 2 million light years is more than sufficient to remove any possibility of the YE timeline.